Re: 700+ International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

topic posted Mon, July 27, 2009 - 3:27 PM by  offlinePsi
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Funny how the previous posting on this subject was deleted!

Never mind, here it is again for clarification:

epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm

The list of the 59 scientists who have joined the list since December is impressive. It includes a number of scientists who were previously keen supporters of the IPCC and even members of the IPCC itself!

" UN IPCC Scientist Dr. Steven M. Japar, a PhD atmospheric chemist who was part of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Second (1995) and Third (2001) Assessment Reports, and has authored 83 peer-reviewed publications and in the areas of climate change, atmospheric chemistry, air pollutions and vehicle emissions, challenged the IPCC’s climate claims.
“Temperature measurements show that the [climate model-predicted mid-troposphere] hot zone is non-existent. This is more than sufficient to invalidate global climate models and projections made with them!” Japar told the minority staff on the Environment and Public Works Committee on January 7, 2009. "

" Japan Geoscience Union symposium last year, ‘the result showed 90 per cent of the participants do not believe the IPCC report.' "

" International Geological Congress, dubbed the geologists' equivalent of the Olympic Games, was held in Norway in August 2008 and prominently featured the voices of scientists skeptical of man-made global warming fears. '2/3 of presenters and question-askers were hostile to, even dismissive of, the UN IPCC' "

It seems that around the world the majority of scientists who are more than qualified to comment on the subject, are saying quite clearly that humans are NOT the primary cause of climate changes.

It is time to wake up to the scam, created by the likes of Al Gore and his friends, for political agendas and for profit!
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Psi
online Psi
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  • You are losing this debate Psi...

    Publics Want More Government Action on Climate Change: Global Poll

    July 29, 2009
    Questionnaire/Methodology (PDF)

    A new WorldPublicOpinion.org poll of 19 nations from around the world finds that majorities in 15 think their government should put a higher priority on addressing climate change than it does now. This includes the largest greenhouse gas emitters: China (62% want more action), the US (52%), and Russia (56%).
    ..............
    www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa...1.php

    • Losing this debate? On the contrary, as each winter breaks records for cold weather, and each summer gets cooler, and now with hundreds of scientists voicing their disagreement with the dogma of the non-consensus based IPCC, all the eco-zealots will find themselves without any basis in science.

      www.climatechangefacts.info/

      Polls mean absolutely nothing, when from an uninformed public who have been deceived about scientific consensus. As there is NO consensus then the media and politicians are using a blatant lie to fool the public into believing that the 'science is in', and those who freely quote the media etc are lying to protect jobs, certain interests, etc.
      Global warming is now a multi-billion industry with 'carbon credits' being traded as global speculative currency. It is a vast scam being perpetrated by scammers. And the scammers are even supporting nuclear power because it is claimed to be 'carbon free'.

      As for Russia, most of the Russian experts in climate science are declaring themselves opposed to the view that humans are causing climate changes. As are most Japanese scientists.
      And what anyone, with half a brain, can see, is that there are far more widely-respected and objective scientists, who are calling for greater debate and providing clear data against AGW, than are directly involved in the production of the theory and its 'evidence'.

      So each year it will get colder and scientists will leave the dogma and scam for the sake of truth, and the AGW theory will disappear. Then the backlash by the media against all the corruption will begin. Anyone who works in relation to NASA knows that NASA is split about 50/50 about AGW. That is NOT consensus! So why would anyone want to claim that there is consensus in science when there so obviously is NOT? Answer: They're lying!
      • Re: 700+ Denialists

        Mon, August 3, 2009 - 1:14 PM
        I am glad the denialist are finally losing the PR battle they unleashed but i am afraid it might be to late...
        It had nothing to do with science..
        History will not treat them kindly..

        World will warm faster than predicted in next five years, study warns
        New estimate based on the forthcoming upturn in solar activity and El Niño southern oscillation cycles is expected to silence global
        Duncan Clark
        guardian.co.uk, Monday 27 July 2009 15.39 BST

        The world faces record-breaking temperatures as the sun's activity increases, leading the planet to heat up significantly faster than scientists had predicted for the next five years, according to a study.

        The hottest year on record was 1998, and the relatively cool years since have led to some global warming sceptics claiming that temperatures have levelled off or started to decline. But new research firmly rejects that argument.

        The research, to be published in Geophysical Research Letters, was carried out by Judith Lean, of the US Naval Research Laboratory, and David Rind, of Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

        The work is the first to assess the combined impact on global temperature of four factors: human influences such as CO2 and aerosol emissions; heating from the sun; volcanic activity and the El Niño southern oscillation, the phenomenon by which the Pacific Ocean flips between warmer and cooler states every few years.

        The analysis shows the relative stability in global temperatures in the last seven years is explained primarily by the decline in incoming sunlight associated with the downward phase of the 11-year solar cycle, together with a lack of strong El Niño events. These trends have masked the warming caused by CO2 and other greenhouse gases.

        As solar activity picks up again in the coming years, the research suggests, temperatures will shoot up at 150% of the rate predicted by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Lean and Rind's research also sheds light on the extreme average temperature in 1998. The paper confirms that the temperature spike that year was caused primarily by a very strong El Niño episode. A future episode could be expected to create a spike of equivalent magnitude on top of an even higher baseline, thus shattering the 1998 record.

        The study comes within days of announcements from climatologists that the world is entering a new El Niño warm spell. This suggests that temperature rises in the next year could be even more marked than Lean and Rind's paper suggests. A particularly hot autumn and winter could add to the pressure on policy makers to reach a meaningful deal at December's climate-change negotiations in Copenhagen.

        Bob Henson, of the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Colorado, said: "To claim that global temperatures have cooled since 1998 and therefore that man-made climate change isn't happening is a bit like saying spring has gone away when you have a mild week after a scorching Easter."

        www.guardian.co.uk/environm...ter-study
        • Re: 700+ Denialists

          Mon, August 3, 2009 - 2:42 PM
          Here is a link to the Union of Concerned Scientists site on global warming:
          www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/
          • Re: nuclear advocates?

            Tue, August 4, 2009 - 5:14 AM
            What a joke the "Union of concerned scientists" is!
            Consisting of "citizens and scientists" who are primarily concerned with climate changes and are prepared to accept nuclear power if the "critical regulations" are adhered to.
            They cite little of any "contrarian" reports or scientific findings by NCAR, NASA and others, that show quite clearly that there is no consensus in science.
            Why not cite all the information? Answer: because they will look very exclusive and cherry-picking, neither of which has anything to do with scientific method.
            Which leaves the conclusion that ucsusa is an organisation run by eco-zealots of the new climate dogma, and do not primarily have objective scientists as members.
            • Re: nuclear advocates?

              Tue, August 4, 2009 - 5:49 AM
              James Lovelock is one of my personal heros. He is the originator of the Gaia hypothesis and the term Gaia. In many ways, he is the founder of this tribe and an elder of great stature.

              Here is his view of global warming put to music. His opinion in his own voice is easy to find with a youtube search. Please do.

              www.youtube.com/watch

              Now, he has a more hopeful attitude, (though of course aware of the reality of global warming like 90% of scientists and even higher percentages when those with ties to fossil fuel industries factored out)
              there have been new developments that i think change the equation as far as our options for dealing with it other than sticking our heads in the sand or other unpleasant places.

              www.youtube.com/watch
              • Re: Facts..

                Tue, August 4, 2009 - 7:01 AM
                "90% of scientists"
                Such utter wrong and misleading information is amazing in this thread. So why the lies when there is more than enough information to show the contrary? Who is paying for the lies?

                The facts from 2007:
                " Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers "implicit" endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However, while only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright, the largest category (48%) are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject the hypothesis. This is no "consensus." "
                epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm

                Paleoclimate scientist Bob Carter, who has testified before the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works (LINK), noted in a June 18, 2007 essay that global warming has stopped.
                “The accepted global average temperature statistics used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change show that no ground-based warming has occurred since 1998. Oddly, this eight-year-long temperature stasis has occurred despite an increase over the same period of 15 parts per million (or 4 per cent) in atmospheric CO2. Second, lower atmosphere satellite-based temperature measurements, if corrected for non-greenhouse influences such as El Nino events and large volcanic eruptions, show little if any global warming since 1979, a period over which atmospheric CO2 has increased by 55 ppm (17 %),”

                There is so much more from all kinds of well-qualified scientists from around the world, more than enough to dispel the lies and expose the scam!
        • No one is losing any battle!
          The zealots want no informed debate and so refuse the inclusion of any dissent in reports, including within the ranks of the IPCC. In fact various members of the IPCC, who have voiced concerns about the disinformation being included in reports, have had to leave because their position was no longer tenable. It is an incredible story where the media and politics has sought to silence any dissent so vigorously as to show their real fear of informed debate. We've had climate scientists (experts in their fields) saying clearly and categorically that IPCC and James Hansen models are wrong and should be debated, yet the zealots only accuse such people of being 'deniers' of their dogma. Dissenters have been aligned with traitors and terrorists by the media and elite members, despite being well-respected and leading members of the scientific community, such as:
          - Dr. John S. Theon, former Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program at NASA Headquarters and former Chief of the Atmospheric Dynamics & Radiation Branch, and James Hansen's former supervisor!
          - Dr. Ernest Hildner, Director NOAA Space Weather Center
          - Dr. Paul Brekke, Deputy Director of SOHO project- European Space Agency
          - Dr. Gerhard Loebert, recipient of the Needle of Honor in astrophysics, designer of project "Firefly" 2nd generation stealth fighter.
          - Dr. Stefaan Poedts: Lead Scientist University of Leuven Center for Plasma Astrophysics
          - Dr. Ronald van der Linden, Royal Observatory, Director of Solar Physics Department
          - Dr. Tom Van Flandern, former US Naval Observatory Chief of Celestial Mechanics
          - Dr. Jay Fein, Program Dir in National Science Foundation - Division of Atmospheric Sciences
          - Dr. Gary Sharp, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study
          - Dr. Michael Griffin, the former top administrator of NASA, Aerospace engineer and physicist,
          - Dr. Joanne Simpson, Atmospheric Scientist, first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology and is formerly of NASA,
          - Dr. Phil Chapman, Geophysicist, an astronautical engineer and former NASA astronaut,
          - Jack Schmitt, Award-Winning NASA Astronaut/Geologist and Moonwalker
          - Robert DeFayette, Chemist and Nuclear Engineer, was formerly with NASA’s Plum Brook Reactor,
          - Ferenc Miskolczi, Hungarian, atmospheric physicist with 30 years of experience & former researcher with NASA's Ames Research Center, - Dr. John Christy, Climatologist
          - Dr. Roy W. Spencer, Climatologist
          - Ross Hays, Atmospheric Scientist, of NASA's Columbia Scientific Balloon Facility
          - Dr. Will Happer, Award winning Princeton University Physicist

          And this pompous nonsense about "History will not treat them kindly.."? From someone who claims to be a 'scientist', who knows so little of the scientific community and the actual climate statistics from the experts in the subject, and who denies that there are thousands of AGW dissenters in science which make a total nonsense of his claims of consensus.
          I have repeatedly provided lists of the scientists who do not agree with the data from computer models that is the main source of climate prediction by the IPCC. For any eco-zealot to imply that all dissent against AGW is by some fringe in science all paid for by EXXON is utter rubbish from ignorance! Such slander cannot ever be backed-up by debate because the accusers are always cowards who know they will lose any debate with far wiser people. But anyone with half a brain can see that there is enough scientific authority against AGW to warrant a full public debate at the highest level.

          And all that after the coolest July on record, the coldest winter ('08-'09) on record (in many parts of the globe), the 3rd coolest summer that I have known in over 30 years of outdoor work (after 2007 and 2008, which were literally freezing!).
          Yet the Guardian article admits that there was a peak in 1998 and several cooler years since! Those with short memories will need reminding that the eco-zealots in Tribe have vigorously attacked any claims that 1998 was the peak of recent temperature rise and that subsequent years have been getting steadily colder, yet here is a zealot suggesting that 1998 was "The hottest year on record.." and "..relatively cool years since.."!
          The Guardian has always taken the fundamentalist line against any dissent against the scam of human caused global warming. At least here they are correctly referring to what actually happened!

          Which only goes to show that the church of climate dogma relies on short memory, lack of informed debate, computer models, little or no media discussion, to ensure that the human population are driven into fear states, pay their taxes, and buy into the whole scam!
          • For anyone wanting a more informed debate:

            Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Dr. W. M. Schaffer, Ph. D., of the University of Arizona - Tucson, past member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, who has authored more than 80 scientific publications and authored the paper “Human Population and Carbon Dioxide,” dissented in 2008. “My principal objections to the theory of anthropogenic warming are as follows: 1) I am mistrustful of ‘all but the kitchen sink’ models that, by virtue of their complexity, cannot be analyzed mathematically. When we place our trust in such models, what too often results is the replacement of a poorly understood physical (chemical, biological) system by a model that is similarly opaque,” Schaffer told EPW on December 19, 2008. “2) I am troubled by the application of essentially linear thinking to what is arguably the ‘mother of all nonlinear dynamical systems’ - i.e., the climate. 3) I believe it likely that "natural climate cycles" are the fingerprints of chaotic behavior that is inherently unpredictable in the long-term. As reviewed in a forthcoming article (Schaffer, in prep), these cycles are "dense" on chaotic attractors and have the stability properties of saddles. Evolving chaotic trajectories successively shadow first one cycle, then another. The result is a sequence of qualitatively different behaviors - what climatologists call "regime shift" - independent of extrinsic influences. Tsonis and his associates discuss this phenomenon in terms of network theory and ‘synchronized chaos,’ but these embellishments are not necessary. To be chaotic is to dance the dance of the saddles,” Schaffer explained. “The recent lack of warming in the face of continued increases in CO2 suggests (a) that the effects of greenhouse gas forcing have been over-stated; (b) that the import of natural variability has been underestimated and (c) that concomitant rises of atmospheric CO2 and temperature in previous decades may be coincidental rather than causal,” he added. “I fear that things could easily go the other way: that the climate could cool, perhaps significantly; that the consequences of a new Little Ice Age or worse would be catastrophic and that said consequences will be exacerbated if we meanwhile adopt warmist prescriptions. This possibility, plus the law of unintended consequences, leads me to view proposed global engineering ‘solutions’ as madness. ‘First do no harm’ should be the watchword of those who propose policy; the fate of Icarus, the example uppermost in their minds,” he continued. “I believe that the enthusiasm of many of my colleagues for the ‘consensus’ view of climate change is partly motivated by considerations outside of science. If I am correct, the truth of the matter will inevitably become widely known and the consequences to science, severe. Think Lysenko and the demise of Soviet genetics,” he concluded.

            CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers, an meteorologist for 22 years, certified by the American Meteorological Society, spoke out against anthropogenic climate claims in 2008. “You know, to think that we could affect weather all that much is pretty arrogant,” Myers said during a December 18, 2008 appearance on CNN’s “Lou Dobbs Tonight.” “Mother Nature is so big, the world is so big, the oceans are so big – I think we’re going to die from a lack of fresh water or we’re going to die from ocean acidification before we die from global warming, for sure,” Myers explained. “But this is like, you know you said – in your career – my career has been 22 years long. That’s a good career in TV, but talking about climate – it’s like having a car for three days and saying, ‘This is a great car.’ Well, yeah – it was for three days, but maybe in days five, six and seven it won’t be so good. And that’s what we’re doing here,” he added. “We have 100 years worth of data, not millions of years that the world’s been around,” Myers concluded.

            Engineer and Physicist J.K. “Jim” August, formerly of the U.S. Navy nuclear power program, and former chair of professional standard committees in both the American Nuclear Society and the American Society of Mechanical Engineering, dissented from climate fears in 2008. “Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth is not scientifically based,” August wrote in a December 15, 2008 analysis titled “An Inconvenient Truth, or a Calculating Deception.” “The book denies the legitimacy of science for review. The irony is, of course, the treatise that Mr. Gore uses to make his points, which could only have any value based on some scientific certainty basis, is not based on science nor the scientific method -- nor can scientists even use science to review it, or follow its logic,” August explained. “Gore argues we’re morally obliged to support his conclusions, precluding objective review with the same scientific methods that he claims to have supported his work. Presenting consequences as facts, he categorically rejects their testing with the same scientific method. Should we be surprised, then when Mr. Gore says that anyone who doubts this must be morally corrupt?” August added. “Fighting religion with reason, we scientists sadly can’t contest. Mr. Gore even shared a Nobel Prize with the IPCC. So, isn't it ironic? The only truth that's inconvenient here is that Mr. Gore’s successfully sold his message as if it were science!” he added.

            Biologist and Neuropharmacologist Dr. Doug Pettibone, who has authored 120 scientific publications and holds ten patents and is a past member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, dissented in 2008. “There is currently no satisfactory answer to the central question: ‘What is the actual proof that humans are causing catastrophic global warming?’ All of the climate computer models in the world do not provide the proof,” Pettibone wrote to EPW on December 11, 2008. “It boils down to a matter of faith that the 30-year positive correlation between man-made CO2 and global temperature provides the proof. But correlations are not proof of cause-and-effect. Blaming global warming on human activity is terribly premature and any legislation designed to curtail CO2 will likely be misguided, costly and ineffective based on the available evidence. Since there has not been any significant increase in global temperatures in the last decade, it is not even clear where temperatures are going to go from here,” Pettibone explained.

            Meteorologist Tom Wysmuller, former weather forecaster at Amsterdam’s Royal Dutch Weather Bureau whose “Polynomial Regression algorithm is embedded in every high-end Texas Instruments calculator sold today,” dissented from man-made global warming fears and predicted a coming global cooling in 2008. Wysmuller said during his two-hour presentation of his latest scientific research titled "The colder side of global warming on December 6, 2008. Wysmuller believes that temperature increases of today are distinct from carbon dioxide levels. “Carbon dioxide is increasing but not dragging the temperatures up," Wysmuller said. "If we controlled pollution now, we still wouldn't stop the ice cap from melting,” he explained. “The largest contributor to carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is the warming oceans,” he continued. The December 11, 2008, article explained, “Wysmuller argues that the current spike in temperature and carbon dioxide levels are approaching levels that existed just prior to the most recent ice age. What that means, he said, is that we are nearing a period when temperatures will actually start to decrease and weather patterns dramatically change.” Wysmuller’s research shows that open water at the Arctic will generate an abundance of "ocean effect" snow, similar to the lake effect snow that hits the upstate New York area. "[The Arctic] will have massive amounts of ocean effect snow," Wysmuller said. "The accumulated snowfall increases reflecting light, so temperatures will cool."

            MIT Scientist Dr. Robert Rose, a professor of Materials Science and Engineering at MIT with approximately 50 years of experience teaching various scientific, linked warming and cooling cycles to the “orbit and the tilt and wobble of the axis of the Earth's spin.” Rose also questioned climate model predictions on July 8, 2008, by stating, “Clearly, these are not ‘facts.’ They are computer models. They may be correct or at least lead us to the correct answer, but the earliest model appears to be incorrect,” Rose wrote. “Cooler heads [are] needed in global warming debate,” Rose wrote. “Global warming is occurring as it has many times in the past; and it will continue for some years before the cooling cycle begins and the glaciers take over, also as they have in the past. We are trying very hard to develop computer simulations to predict the contribution our activities are making to the warming, and the going has been difficult. These models can't be tested experimentally (unless we can find another planet on which to conduct our experiments) and are tested mostly by fitting them to past behavior, pretty much the same approach as handicapping horse races.

            Climate researcher Dr. Craig Loehle, formerly of the Department of Energy Laboratories and currently with the National Council for Air and Stream Improvements, who has published more than 100 peer-reviewed scientific papers, attended the skeptical 2008 International Conference on Climate Change in New York City in March 2008. “The 2000-year [temperature] trend is not flat, so a warming period is not unprecedented,” Loehle said during the skeptical conference in March 2008. “The 1500-year [temperature] cycle as proposed by [Atmospheric physicist Fred] Singer and [Dennis] Avery is consistent with Loehle climate reconstruction,” Loehle explained. “The 1500-year cycle implies that recent warming is part of natural trend,” he added. Loehle published a November 2007 study in Energy & Environment that found the Medieval Warm Period to be "0.3C warmer than the 20th century." The study was titled “A 2000-year global temperature reconstruction based on non-treering proxies."

            German Meteorologist Dr. Gerd-Rainer Weber, a Consulting Meteorologist, attended the skeptical 2008 International Conference on Climate Change in New York City in March. “Most of the extremist views about climate change have little or no scientific basis. The rational basis for extremist views about global warming may be a desire to push for political action on global warming,” Weber said during the conference. Weber also endorsed the Manhattan Declaration on Climate Change, sponsored by the International Climate Science Coalition (ICSC) in 2008. The declaration reads in part, “There is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change.”

            Atmospheric Scientist Robert L. Scotto, who has more than 30 years air quality consulting experience, served as zone-wide QA Manager on a $300 million EPA Superfund contract, is co-founder of Minnich and Scotto, Inc., a full-service air quality consulting firm and a past member of the American Meteorological Society (AMS). Scotto, a meteorologist who has authored or co-authored numerous technical publications and reports, joined the 650 international scientists dissenting from man-made warming claims in 2008. “Proponents of AGW (anthropogenic global warming) analyses of recent surface temperature records which are suspect at best, as they clearly contradict much more reliable satellite data,” Scotto told EPW on December 22, 2008. According to satellite data, “the Earth has been cooling since 1998,” Scotto wrote. “This discrepancy is due principally to the spatially unrepresentative nature of the surface records, owing first to the fact that rural stations are increasingly being replaced by urban stations and, second, to the frequent failure of these new urban stations to meet basic siting criteria,” Scotto explained. “Based on the laws of physics, the effect on temperature of man’s contribution to atmospheric CO2 levels is minuscule and indiscernible from the natural variability caused in large part by changes in solar energy output. Acknowledgment of this true science is critical to implementation of much-needed practical measures for increasing domestic energy and world food supplies,” he added.

            Atmospheric Scientist Timothy R. Minnich, who has more than 30 years experience in the design and management of a wide range of air quality investigations for industry and government, specializes in the application of optical remote sensing (ORS) to a wide range of air-related issues. Minnich has worked with EPA as a Superfund contractor, is co-founder of Minnich and Scotto, Inc., a full-service air quality consulting firm. Minnich, who holds a masters degree in meteorology and taught courses at Rutgers University and University of Michigan, is a past member of the American Meteorological Society, specializes in issues like acid rain and ozone and has authored or co-authored numerous technical publications and reports. “I choose to take President-elect Obama at his word when, upon his appointment of John Holdren as director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, he promised to “[protect] free and open inquiry . . . ensuring that facts and evidence are never twisted or obscured by politics or ideology,’” Minnich told EPW on December 22, 2008. Clearly the best means to fulfill on this commitment is to appoint to the Council of Advisors on Science and Technology, over which Dr. Holdren will preside, several of the more than 650 distinguished and renowned scientists who have openly questioned the “consensus” on AGW in Senator Inhofe’s 2008 U.S. Senate Minority Report,” Minnich explained. “The late Michael Crichton said it well: ‘Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. . . . Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus [which] is the business of politics. . . . What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus,’” Minnich added.

            Award Winning Physicist Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy from 1990 to 1993, who has published over 200 scientific papers, and is a fellow of the American Physical Society, The American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the National Academy of Sciences, dissented from warming fears and requested to be added to Senate dissenting scientist report in 2008. “I had the privilege of being fired by Al Gore, since I refused to go along with his alarmism. I did not need the job that badly,” Happer told EPW on December 22, 2008. Happer, who was awarded the Alexander von Humboldt Award, the Broida Prize and the 1999 Davisson-Germer Prize of the American Physical Society, says he was fired by Gore in 1993 for failing to adhere to Gore’s scientific views on ozone and climate. “I was told that science was not going to intrude on policy," Happer said in 1993. In 2008, Happer publicly dissented from man-made warming fears. “I have spent a long research career studying physics that is closely related to the greenhouse effect, for example, absorption and emission of visible and infrared radiation, and fluid flow. Based on my experience, I am convinced that the current alarm over carbon dioxide is mistaken,” Happer explained. “Mistakes are common in science and they can take a long time to correct, sometimes many generations. It is important that misguided political decisions do not block science's capacity for self correction, especially in this instance when incorrect science is being used to threaten our liberties and wellbeing,” Happer added. “Fears about man-made global warming are unwarranted and are not based on good science. The earth's climate is changing now, as it always has. There is no evidence that the changes differ in any qualitative way from those of the past. We are currently in a warming cycle that began in the early 1800's, at the end of the little ice age. Much of the current warming occurred before the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere were significantly increased by the burning of fossil fuels. No one knows how long the current warming will continue, and in fact, there has been no warming for the past ten years,” he continued. “Carbon dioxide is a natural constituent of the atmosphere, and calling it a ‘pollutant’ is inaccurate. Humans exhale air containing 4 to 5 per cent carbon dioxide or 40,000 to 50,000 parts per million. Plants grow better with more carbon dioxide. The current levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are about 380 parts per million, exceptionally low by the standards of geological history. Over the past 500 million years since the Cambrian, when fossils of multicellular life first became abundant, the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have been much higher than current levels, about 3 times higher on average. Life on earth flourished with these higher levels of carbon dioxide,” he added. “Computer models used to generate frightening scenarios from increasing levels of carbon dioxide have scant credibility. There is little debate that the direct effects of doubling carbon dioxide concentrations would be very small, perhaps 1 to 2 C of warming. To generate alarming scenarios, computer modelers must invent positive feedback mechanisms that increase the greenhouse effect of water vapor, which is responsible for over 90 percent of greenhouse warming. Observations indicate that the feedback is very small and may actually be negative. Changes in atmospheric water vapor and cloud cover may diminish, not increase, the small direct effects of carbon dioxide,” he concluded.
            • The new scientific report “directly challenges the conclusions of the IPCC Summary that human emissions of carbon dioxide are causing dangerous and unprecedented warming.” - Quantitative Economist Kenneth A. Haapala, the past president of the prestigious Philosophical Society of Washington, the oldest scientific society in Washington (founded 1871), has reviewed hundreds of reports based on quantitative techniques. Haapala co-authored the report “Nature, Not Human Activity, Rules the Climate”

              “I think that climatic changes have a natural causes according many geological data…I am very glad to sign the U.S. Senate’s report of scientists against the theory of man-made global warming.” - Geology Professor Uberto Crescenti of the University G.d'Annunzio in Italy is the past president of the Society of Italian Geologists.

              “I am appalled at the state of discord in the field of climate science…There is no observational evidence that the addition of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions have caused any temperature perturbations in the atmosphere.” - Award-winning atmospheric scientist Dr. George T. Wolff, former member of the EPA’s Science Advisory Board, served on a committee of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and authored more than 90 peer-reviewed studies.

              “The sky is not burning, and to claim that it is amounts to journalistic malpractice…the press only promotes the global warming alarmists and ignores or minimizes those of us who are skeptical.” - Chemist Dr. Mark L. Campbell, a professor of chemistry at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, who has published numerous studies in the Journal of the American Chemical Society on topics such as methane.

              “Once again we have misleading climate change pronouncements being based on data errors, data errors detected by non-UN, non-IPCC, non-peer-reviewed external observers…This is exactly what happens when you base your arguments on ‘consensus science’ and not scientific fact.” - Professor Dr. Doug L. Hoffman, a mathematician, computer programmer, and engineer, who worked on environmental models and conducted research in molecular dynamics simulations. Hoffman co-authored the 2009 book, The Resilient Earth, described as “bringing a dose of skeptical reality to climate science and the global warming debate.”

              “The questions are scientific, but the UN answers are political. The global warming debate is hardly about science.” - Computer Modeler and Engineer Allen Simmons, who worked 12 years with NASA's top climate scientists and wrote computer systems software for the world's first weather satellites and aided in the development of computer systems for polar orbiting satellites. Simmons co-authored the new skeptical book The Resilient Earth.

              Belief in climate models compared to “ancient astrology”… "I believe the anthropogenic (man-made) effect for climate change is still only one of the hypotheses to explain the variability of climate.” - Award-winning Japanese Physicist Dr. Kanya Kusano, program director of the Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology who’s research “focuses on the immaturity of simulation work cited in support of the theory of anthropogenic climate change.” compared climate models to “ancient astrology.”

              “The recent ‘panic’ to control GHG (greenhouse gas) emissions and billions of dollars being dedicated for the task has me deeply concerned that US, and other countries are spending precious global funds to stop global warming, when it is primarily being driven by natural forcing mechanisms.” - Climatologist and Paloeclimate researcher Dr. Diane Douglas, who has authored or edited over 200 technical reports, specialized in the reconstruction of a variety of proxy data and has worked for the Department of Energy and conducted research for the Arizona State Office of Climatology to investigate the Little Ice Age.

              “Temperature measurements show that the [climate model-predicted mid-troposphere] hot zone is non-existent. This is more than sufficient to invalidate global climate models and projections made with them!”- UN IPCC Scientist Dr. Steven M. Japar, a PhD atmospheric chemist who was part of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Second (1995) and Third (2001) Assessment Reports, and has authored 83 peer-reviewed publications and in the areas of climate change, atmospheric chemistry, air pollutions and vehicle emissions.

              “The cause of these global changes is fundamentally due to the Sun and its effect on the Earth as it moves about in its orbit. Not from man-made activities.” - Retired Award Winning NASA Atmospheric Scientist Dr. William W. Vaughan, recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Medal, a former Division Chief of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and author more than 100 refereed journal articles, monographs, and papers.

              “Unfortunately, Climate Science has become Political Science…It is tragic that some perhaps well-meaning but politically motivated scientists who should know better have whipped up a global frenzy about a phenomena which is statistically questionable at best.” - Award-Winning Princeton University Physicist Dr. Robert H. Austin, who has published 170 scientific papers, was elected a member of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and is the current Chair of the U.S. Liaison Committee of the International Union of Pure and Applied Physics. Austin, who won the 2005 Edgar Lilienfeld Prize of the American Physical Society

              “If global cooling will come soon -- scientists will lose trust .” - Award-winning Japanese Geologist Dr. Shigenori Maruyama, a professor at the Tokyo Institute of Technology’s Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences who has authored more than 125 scientific publications, was decorated with the Medal of Honor with Purple Ribbon for a major contribution in the field of geology, specializes in the geological evidence of prehistoric climate change.

              “Observe which side resorts to the most vociferous name-calling and you are likely to have identified the side with the weaker argument and they know it.” - Materials and Research Physicist Dr. Charles R. Anderson, a former Department of Navy research physicist who has published more than 25 scientific papers specializes in spectroscopy, microscopy, thermal analysis, mass spectroscopy, and surface chemistry.

              “The data which is used to date for making the conclusions and predictions on global warming are so rough and primitive, compared to what’s needed, and so unreliable that they are not even worth mentioning by respectful scientists.” - Award-winning Aerospace and Mechanical Engineer Dr. Gregory W. Moore, who has authored or co-authored more than 75 publications, book chapters, and reports, and authored the 2001 Version of the NASA Space Science Technology Plan which included a comprehensive approach to studying the Sun-Earth connection aspect of space-based research.

              “I appreciate the opportunity to add my name to those who disagree that global warming is man-made…Hansen embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming.” - Retired senior NASA atmospheric scientist Dr. John S. Theon, a former supervisor of NASA’s James Hansen, and the former Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program at NASA Headquarters and former Chief of the Atmospheric Dynamics & Radiation Branch.

              “I am pleased to be considered a ‘denier’ in this cause if this puts me in the class with those who defied prevailing ‘scientific consensus’ that the earth was flat and that the earth was the not the center of the universe.” – Retired U.S. Air Force (USAF) Meteorologist William “Bill” Lyons, of the USAF’s Global Weather Central at Strategic Air Command.

              “I do not find the supposed scientific consensus among my colleagues… Curiously, it is a feature of man-made global warming that every fact confirms it: rising temperatures or decreasing temperatures. No matter what the weather, some model of global warming offers a watertight explanation.” - Earth Scientist Dr. Javier Cuadros of the UK Natural History Museum, who specializes in Clay Mineralogy and has published more than 30 scientific papers

              “It is amazing to me, as a professional geologist, how many otherwise intelligent people have, as some may say, ‘drunk the Al Gore Kool-Aid’ concerning global climate change.” - Professional Geologist Earl F. Titcomb Jr. has co-authored analyses of geological and seismological hazards.

              “Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus [which] is the business of politics. . . . What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.’” - Atmospheric Scientist Timothy R. Minnich, who has more than 30 years experience in the design and management of a wide range of air quality investigations for industry and government, is a past member of the American Meteorological Society and specializes in issues like acid rain and ozone, and has authored or co-authored numerous technical publications and reports.

              “Based on the laws of physics, the effect on temperature of man’s contribution to atmospheric CO2 levels is minuscule and indiscernible from the natural variability caused in large part by changes in solar energy output.” - Atmospheric Scientist Robert L. Scotto, who has more than 30 years air quality consulting experience, served as a manager for an EPA Superfund contract and is co-founder of Minnich and Scotto, Inc., a full-service air quality consulting firm. He also is a past member of the American Meteorological Society (AMS). Scotto, a meteorologist who has authored or co-authored numerous technical publications and reports.

              “Whether the ice caps melt, or expand --- whatever happens --- the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) theorists claim it confirms their theory. A perfect example of a pseudo-science like astrology.” - Mathematical Physicist Dr. Frank Tipler, professor at Tulane University has authored 58 peer-reviewed publications and five books.

              “My dear colleague [NASA’s James] Hansen, I believe, has finally gone off the deep end... The global warming ‘time bomb,’ ‘disastrous climate changes that spiral dynamically out of humanity's control.’ These are the words of an apocalyptic prophet, not a rational scientist.” - Chemist Dr. Nicholas Drapela of the faculty of Oregon State University Chemistry Department

              “There is no credible evidence of the current exceptional global warming trumpeted by the IPCC…The IPCC is no longer behaving as an investigative scientific organization or pretending to be one…Their leaders betrayed the trust of the world community.” - Chemist Dr. Grant Miles, author of numerous scientific publications who was elected to a Fellowship of the Royal Institute of Chemistry, was a member of UK Atomic Energy Authority Chemical Separation Plant Committee.

              Chemist Dr. Mark L. Campbell, a professor of chemistry at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, who has published numerous studies in the Journal of the American Chemical Society on topics such as methane, squarely blames the media for promoting unfounded climate fears. “The sky is not burning, and to claim that it is amounts to journalistic malpractice…the press only promotes the global warming alarmists and ignores or minimizes those of us who are skeptical,” Chapman wrote on January 13, 2009.

              “Scientists across the globe are catching on -- global warming is not real science. There is a sucker born every minute who believes in it, and Al Gore is playing the role of P.T. Barnum,” Chemist Max S. Strozier declared on December 22, 2009 in an email to the minority staff of the Environment and Public Works Committee. Strozier spent 26 years specializing in chemical laboratory analysis, served as a U.S. Department of Defense aerospace chemist and is a former lecturer at San Jose State University and the University of Texas.

              Mathematical Physicist Dr. Frank Tipler, professor at Tulane University who has authored 58 peer-reviewed publications and five books, ridiculed man-made climate claims. “Whether the ice caps melt, or expand --- whatever happens --- the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) theorists claim it confirms their theory. A perfect example of a pseudo-science like astrology," Tipler wrote on December 22, 2008.

              Plus:
              Geologist Dr. Lloyd C. Furer, a past Associate Scientist and Visiting Professor at Indiana University who served as a meteorologist for the U.S. Air Force and has authored more than 35 publications; Physicist and environmental activist John Droz, Jr., who holds a graduate degree in physics from Syracuse University; Geologist Dr. A. Neil Hutton, former District Geologist for Northwest Territories and the Arctic Islands and former Assistant Chief Geologist for the Western Canadian Basin; Professional Geologist Gary Walker, a member of the Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists; Ohio’s NBC 4 chief meteorologist Jym Ganahl who was the youngest person to be granted the American Metrological (AMS) Seal of Approval; Dr. Jim Buckee, who holds a PhD in Astrophysics from Oxford University, lectured about climate change at the University of Aberdeen; Geologist Allan Shepard, former Chief Geologist for Amoco International and member of the Association of Engineers, Geologists and Geophysicists of Alberta; Physicist Gary M. Hoover, a consultant with research and operational experience in atmospheric energy absorption, nuclear reactor operations and exploration geophysics; Meteorologist Scott Sumner of North Carolina; Professor Dr. Caleb Stewart Rossiter, an adjunct professor at the School of International Service at American University and a former teacher of quantitative research methods; Chemical Process Control Engineer Dr. Pierre R Latour, who holds a PhD in Chemical Engineering and has published more than 70 publications and managed NASA’s Apollo Docking Simulator development; Terry Jackson of the Institute of Physics in London, the founder of the Energy Group, and a physics teacher at Belfast Institute Further and Higher Education for 30 years; Certified consulting meteorologist Anthony J. Sadar, co-author of Environmental Risk Communication: Principles and Practices for Industry; Physicist Dr. Paul Drallos, who worked as a Post Doc at Sandia National Labs in Albuquerque and at the University of Toledo, formed Plasma Dynamics Corporation, a small research company that specializes in plasma display technology and computer simulation; Surface Chemist Dr. Mark Rose Head of Environmental Quality at Qatar Petroleum who has generated two patents and developed the largest Purified Wet Acid Plant in the world; Geologist Dr. Seymour Merrin, a Fellow of the Geological Society of America and a research scientist; Environmental Chemist Jim Nibeck, who also worked in the biomedical research industry, wrote a 2008 paper on climate titled “Doubt About Anthropogenic Global Warming”; Physicist Jerome Hudson who studies focused on aperture synthesis and optics; Certified Consulting Meteorologist Mike Smith, the CEO of WeatherData Services of Wichita Kansas; Environmental Engineer James A. Haigh, PE, a Certified Plant Engineer and Licensed Professional Engineer of 36 years who has assisted in the design of Class III Nuclear Valves for Nuclear Power Plants; Meteorologist Tony Pann of WUSA 9 in Washington DC, holds the American Meteorological Seal of Approval; Biologist and Biochemist Dr. John Reinhard, a member of the American Chemical Society who has published 76 papers and currently a scientist in the pharmaceutical industry; Engineer Alan Cheetham has 30 years experience including extensive scientific training, data analysis, modeling and statistics and runs the skeptical website “Global Warming Science”; Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Dr. W. M. Schaffer, Ph. D., of the University of Arizona; CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers, an meteorologist for 22 years, certified by the American Meteorological Society; Engineer and Physicist J.K. “Jim” August, formerly of the U.S. Navy nuclear power program; Biologist and Neuropharmacologist Dr. Doug Pettibone, who has authored 120 scientific publications and holds ten patents and is a past member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science; Meteorologist Tom Wysmuller, former weather forecaster at Amsterdam’s Royal Dutch Weather Bureau; MIT Scientist Dr. Robert Rose, a professor of Materials Science and Engineering at MIT with approximately 50 years of experience teaching various scientific; Climate researcher Dr. Craig Loehle, formerly of the Department of Energy Laboratories and currently with the National Council for Air and Stream Improvements, who has published more than 100 peer-reviewed scientific papers; German Meteorologist Dr. Gerd-Rainer Weber, a Consulting Meteorologist; Professor Luigi Mariani of the Agrometeorological Research Group, Dept. of Crop Science at the University of Milan, has authored or co-authored more than 50 peer-reviewed studies and other scientific reports; Miroslav Kutilek, Emeritus Professor of Soil Science and Soil Physics at Czech Technical University in Prague who specialized in paleoclimatology of soil; Coastal Engineer Cyril Galvin, member of the American Geophysical Union; Nuclear Chemist Gary L. Troyer has worked as an analytical chemist and was a Fellow Scientist at the Westinghouse Hanford Company; and Award Winning Physicist Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy, who has published over 200 scientific papers.
          • You are still in denial Psi..
            These islanders can not afford that..


            CLIMATE CHANGE: 75 Million Environmental Refugees to Plague Asia-Pacific
            By Neena Bhandari

            SYDNEY, Aug 4 (IPS) - Pacific Islanders, aiming to secure their very survival, are calling for immediate commitments from the developed world to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by at least 45 percent by 2020.

            "For us, climate change is a reality. We have been experiencing high tidal waves, which has not been the case earlier," Pelenise Alofa Pilitati, Chairperson of the Church Education Director's Association in Kiribati, told IPS. "High tides and sea level rise will submerge our homeland. We don’t want to become environmental refugees."

            Climate change could produce eight million refugees in the Pacific Islands, along with 75 million refugees in the Asia Pacific region in the next 40 years, warns a new report by aid agency, Oxfam Australia.

            The report points out that "For countries like Kiribati, Tuvalu, Tokelau, the Marshall Islands, Fiji, Vanuatu, Papua New Guinea and the Federated States of Micronesia, climate change is not something that could happen in the future but something they are experiencing now."
            ......................
            www.ipsnews.net/news.asp

            Btw
            You make the appeal to authority fallacy...
            www.nizkor.org/features/f...hority.html
            • You are totally subject to the elite controlled media and NOT science. You post with the usual fear-based, unscientific, media rubbish, as if you know anything about the actual science! It's all spectacle and pomp.

              What is most amazing is that science has confirmed repeatedly that immediate ending of all human CO2 emissions will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on the global climate for decades (if at all). So to pretend that the science on the subject has agreed that human CO2 (a small minority of atmospheric CO2 total) is the cause of rising oceans and that humans can stop the changes, is false and you know it!
              This kind of delusion, based on false data from computer models, is not remotely scientific. Far worse is the use of false data to delude and deceive the public.
              See the lists of quotes in this thread and elsewhere. Real scientists have made it clear enough now!
              • "You make the appeal to authority fallacy... "

                A desperate (cheap) attempt to suggest that the quoted experts are invalid, and try to turn readers away from the truth!
                Which is real laugh coming from a supposed eco 'scientist' who uses the media to support his fake arguments and data, while ignoring the real science and the leading scientists in the relevant fields.

                Some unscientific idiots might latch-on to the idea that all coastlines that are slowly being dissolved by the sea are being lost because of AGW. As a matter of fact there are new volcanic islands being formed right now, and coasts falling into the sea all the time. Some say that the Earth is expanding and so land and sea shelves are falling. Some land masses are tilting. Some coral reefs are growing and some are decaying. The discovery of millions of undersea volcanoes, of which a significant number are actively warming oceans, is part of the dynamic of living on a living, breathing, conscious and growing planet. Humans really should get used to it!
                • ""You make the appeal to authority fallacy... "
                  A desperate (cheap) attempt to suggest that the quoted experts are invalid"

                  Posting a long list of times with academic titles does not make a valid scientific argument...
                  It IS a classic example of the appeal to authority fallacy..

                  Btw
                  700 is not even an impressive number (<1% of the climate scientist worldwide) and in many cases their expertise on the subject is disputed..



                  A New List of Climate Quibblers: Paid Deniers, Dead Guys and Ill-informed Fellow Travellers
                  RICHARD LITTLEMORE
                  2 January 2009

                  The latest list of "650 International Scientists (who) Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming" seems to be more of the same: dead guys (Fred Seitz, Marcel Leroux, Reid Bryson ...), paid deniers (Fred Singer, Tim Ball, Sallie Baliunas ...), and a much larger group of weather forecasters and "experts" from unrelated fields, many of whom (eg., Edward Wegman) don't even disagree with the scientific consensus that human activity is causing climate change.

                  The apparent author of this list, Swiftboater Marc Morano, even included the names of Ted Nordhaus and Michael Shellenberger, an historian and an anthropologist who have made themselves famous by advocating for renewed and more vigorous policy action against the threat of climate change.

                  It's possible that some of the people included in this list sincerely doubt that human activity is promoting potentially catastrophic climate change. For example, the 79-year-old Nobel laureate (Physics, 1973) Ivar Giaever may, legitimately, have fallen behind in his reading. For that matter, it's possible, perhaps evening likely, that Giaever has never taken any direct interest in atmospheric science.
                  ................
                  www.desmogblog.com/new-list...ravellers
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    This figure cannot be supported.
                    Posting that there are some 100,000 leading climatologists who disagree with the leading scientists that I have listed, yet providing not one name or quote, should be enough to show how little validity your argument has! It's just a load of hot air (more than enough to account for any warming!)
                    Where is the list of people? Where are the leaders in science saying very clearly what the data is showing?

                    In conversation with well-qualified science I have found out that there is not one clear peer-reviewed study to prove that CO2 causes any significant change in climate. It is one of the main causes of doubt about the 'models' and as a result there is a huge dispute in scientific circles, between those who rely solely on models and those who rely primarily on empirical data. Where is a peer-reviewed study showing clearly that CO2 must be the primary cause of climate change? Provide it now for discussion!
                    According to the modellers the global temperature is still rising, while the data does not support this. Speak to those who rely on empirical data and most agree that the atmospheric temperature has been cooling steadily, despite a continued rise in CO2 levels over the last 10 years (since the obvious spike). This cooling simultaneous with dramatic and ever-rising CO2 levels has happened before during the 40s to early 80s, and is yet another cause of major disagreement within and out of the IPCC. Many leading members of the IPCC have left because of this information.

                    "Posting a long list of times with academic titles does not make a valid scientific argument.."
                    What on Earth does this mean? It's gobbledegook! You can't even communicate properly!
                    Each one of the people quoted states clearly enough why they disagree and/or that the science does not support the models. In any debate with any one of those listed, you would appear foolish!

                    It 's pathetic to suggest that those who are involved directly, who disagree with models being the primary evidence for what is actually happening right now, are a minority in science. NASA is about 50/50 on the issue directly because of the failure of the IPCC models (which have been repeatedly revised because of being found to have wildly false data based on assumption). To suggest that the majority of science agrees about CO2 and what it causes or not, is false. It is also typical of the media and those who rely on the media and models for their 'proof' of anything!
                    But what is more scandalous is to suggest (like the media) that a 'consensus' exists in science. It is a blatant lie for political masters and designed to deceive the wider public.
                    Politicians around the planet are using climate change to implement draconian strategies, huge tax increases, vast increases in clearing of forest for bio-fuel production (with obvious environmental impact) and huge increases in nuclear power programs. The disgraceful corruption of those involved is so utterly obvious and for profit. Implementing nuclear power as a 'carbon friendly' form of energy is a blatant lie, while destroying yet more valuable forest for bio-fuel is evidence enough.
                    As many have testified, the US military is using free-energy devices right now and has been for decades. I have seen directly the 30+% savings from water-based hydrogen fuel units added to cars very cheaply. A global saving of 30+% of fuel would dramatically alter the situation yet is not being used or even mentioned by politicians or media. They are revealing the scam by this alone.
                    And yet there are people who are running engines entirely on water-based fuel and are proving it for all to see. A 100% saving of fossil fuel achievable in a short time with easily available technology? Why would media and government not promote it for the collective benefit? Answer: they are directly involved in a huge scam designed for profit, using climate changes as a way to justify their deception.

                    The main policy advisors and architects of the Obama regime include Brezinzski and Kissinger. Both are stating clearly their intention to bring in a new world order which will be primarily Anglo-American. They have stated clearly (in writing and speech) that they regard dramatic population reduction the solution to most of the world's problems. They decide US foreign policy and are directing huge bodies such as the Trilateral Commission, Council for Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group, the U.N and W.H.O. These (mostly secretive) groups drive all the global agendas for war, energy, health, education, environment, etc, There is a common agenda between all such groups, and the Club of Rome (that Al Gore is a member of) and actively implementing their agenda of using climate change as a means to control human population with fear. These huge organisations and their minions are at every level of society. They control governments and the media, and therefore, to some extent, the IPCC itself!

                    But it all comes down to "valid scientific argument" which you have not provided much in support of, and mostly from the elite-controlled media! You often refer to some model study that projects ever-rising temperature when it is NOT happening. You can't quote from any scientists because too many will not get involved in this politically motivated issue. Even leading members of the IPCC and Kyoto bodies have stated their doubt about the models.

                    This quote is regarding the new book "CHILL A reassessment of global warming theory" by Peter Taylor
                    "Do you believe the earth is warming? Think again, says Peter Taylor, a committed environmental analyst with the unusual gift of following scientific evidence ruthlessly wherever it may lead. Taylor has done groundbreaking work on issues ranging from ocean pollution and biodiversity through renewable energy. Now he turns his relentless searchlight on climate change. His work has the ring of passion and the clarity of intellectual honesty. We can be certain his conclusions are the product of a fearless, unbiased, and intelligent intellectual journey by a remarkable mind, all the marks of genuine science. Taylor challenges us to look beyond our biases to whatever conclusions the evidence may justify. Believers in global warming such as myself may not find comfort here, but they will without question find a clear challenge to examine all the evidence objectively. At the very least, Taylor raises issues and questions that must be addressed conclusively before global warming can be genuinely regarded as “truth”, inconvenient or otherwise.
                    This book is a must-read for everyone on all sides of the climate change issue."
                    - W. Jackson Davis, professor emeritus, University of California, and author of the first draft of the Kyoto Protocol

                    Here then is a leading scientist who is asking for more debate and work towards real consensus. What a refreshing difference to hear from major supporters of the 'belief' in human-caused climate changes, who are asking for informed debate, to "look beyond our biases" and to "examine all the evidence objectively".
                    Davis said all this because the questions are not being "addressed conclusively" (just being dismissed by rude little zealots who can't debate themselves out of a public toilet!).

                    The implications of following wrong models, into a strategy which falsely claims that by reducing CO2 output now we will stop any climate changes, is potentially disastrous for humanity, because humanity will not therefore be prepared for the cooling and mass starvation that has followed every other period of warming. It is simple facts such as this that are turning away leading scientists from the IPCC models and which is persuading many more people around the planet that the issue is politically motivated.
                    When insufficient data is presented, models are shown wrong and constantly being revised, empirical data does not support the models, new studies emerge that have convincing evidence that there are many more factors involved than carbon emissions, that repeated studies have shown a direct correlation of global temperature with Solar cycles and not at all with CO2 levels, etc etc, then THERE IS NO CONSENSUS! So to claim a consensus is stupid and delusional, and what people expect from followers of dogma not science!

                    So any rude little zealot wanting to suggest that Peter Taylor is in the pay of 'oil lobbies' should know that his sustainable environmental credentials are impeccable! And to do so would question the credentials of W. Jackson Davis also, which would be really stupid, wouldn't it!?
              • Re: Don't critisize what you don't understand..

                Tue, August 4, 2009 - 7:59 AM
                "You are totally subject to the elite controlled media and NOT science."

                Nonsense..
                I wrote my scientific thesis on climate change in 1995 long before the media took notice..
                More than a decade before an inconvenient truth was released..

                Did you ever contribute anything to climate science except parrotting the Oil & Coal lobby?..

                It has been a long fight to win the attention of the people for this huge problem,
                first the media ignored the problem, then they created a debate that did not exist...
                now they are finally starting to wake up a bit to the subject..
                To late...i am afraid..
                • Did you ever contribute anything to climate science except parrotting the media?..

                  You clearly cannot quote any leading scientists on the subject of climate change, which is why you resort to the worst kinds of fear-based journalism for your 'support', rather than hard science. It must be frustrating that so few objective scientists support the IPCC and its false data!
                  "Inconvenient Truth" has been shown to be full of false claims and spectacle and very little to do with actual science. Former companions of James Hansen have stated that he is wrong.

                  I have absolutely no connection to the "Oil & Coal lobby" (or their information), who are all buying carbon credits (making Al Gore even richer!) to make themselves appear greener. It is ALL about money and power. The rich elite are getting richer from the 'carbon credit' scam and are successfully deluding whole populations into believing that they are doing anything for the planet. Meanwhile they are deliberately causing a financial depression, stealing billions from tax-payers, creating more 'green' taxes to pay for their ever-increasing wars and corruption, and all the while spouting about CO2 and climate change, and how climate change is the biggest threat to humanity.
                  The same people, who declare themselves to be the main supporters of AGW and the 'war against climate change', are creating a pandemic threat to get rich on huge payoffs from vaccine manufacturers, knowing full-well that the vaccines are far more toxic than the flu.
                  Anyone with half a brain can see that the same people (world 'leaders', media owners, industrialists, elite members, government advisors and policy makers, etc) are orchestrating the same overall strategy. Their writers have declared their pursued agenda of global population reduction. What better way than to delude the population into believing that climate change can be stopped when they know that far greater forces are at work. And so millions will be unprepared for the changes while they believe that their leaders are 'doing something'!
                  When we know that the economic 'think-tank' the Club of Rome (Al Gore and friends) stated their intention to use climate change to create fear and control, then it becomes obvious why the media presents a one-sided story and one that is full of fear. In that way we can see that anything that the mainstream media reports on so regularly is controlled by a secretive elite agenda. Thus we can say that the entire AGW theory is being driven by political and economic agendas.

                  If you actually believe that it is 'too late', then you agree with the many hundreds of qualified scientists who have agreed that reducing CO2 now will have NO effect on global temperature for decades!

                  Remember there IS a debate in science, precisely because the empirical evidence shows that the assertions and projections by the IPCC are often wrong and unfounded. To use computer models for every prediction and then vilify any disagreement with those models is a scandal in science!
                  To suggest that such a huge list of well-qualified and committed scientists are all in the pay of the lobbies is slanderous and a cheap lie that cannot possibly be backed up. This kind of false accusation is a disgrace, leading to the conclusion that it may be from an opinionated student with a grudge against his betters? Definitely no scientist!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    " It must be frustrating that so few objective scientists support the IPCC and its false data! "

                    Not at all..I have been frustrated with the media that ignored and obscured the problem for so long..
                    But science really prevailed through the IPCC...
                    Ofcourse there are some scientist that still do not understand this huge problem..

                    But scientific consensus and the evidence of man made global warming has been growing and growing since 1990..
                    Science did a great job, but the media and the politicians generally failed..

                    Here is an interesting poll about the scientific consensus on man made global warming..


                    Poll: Thousands of Scientists Affirm Human-Caused Global Warming
                    CHICAGO, Illinois, January 20, 2009 (ENS)

                    To overcome criticism of earlier attempts to gauge the view of earth scientists on global warming and the human impact factor, Doran and his team sought the opinion of the most complete list of earth scientists they could find, contacting more than 10,200 experts listed in the 2007 edition of the American Geological Institute's "Directory of Geoscience Departments."

                    Experts in academia and government research centers were e-mailed invitations to participate in the on-line poll conducted by the website www.questionpro.com.

                    Only those invited could participate and computer IP addresses of participants were recorded and used to prevent repeat voting. Questions used were reviewed by a polling expert who checked for bias in phrasing, such as suggesting an answer by the way a question was worded. The nine-question survey was short, taking just a few minutes to complete.

                    The 3,146 participating scientists were asked two key questions - "Have mean global temperatures risen compared to pre-1800s levels?" and, "Has human activity been a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures?"

                    About 90 percent of the respondents agreed with the first question and 82 percent the second.

                    Doran determined that climatologists who are active in research showed the strongest consensus on the causes of global warming, with 97 percent agreeing humans play a role.
                    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                    www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jan...0-02.asp
                    • Re: NO consensus at all!

                      Fri, August 7, 2009 - 5:05 PM
                      We ALL know about computer polls, and this one is via email? D'uh!
                      Just remember repeated US elections, Mexican elections, UK elections, and many more around the planet, conducted by computer. So many utterly false results that we know all we need to know about computer polls, whatever group or technology.
                      What is really funny about the report is that of the 10,200 'experts' listed, only 3,146 participated. Of those 82% agreed that humans were a 'significant factor'. So, 2,580 'experts' out of 10,200 agreed with the question! 25%? Hardly a consensus!

                      Only 3146 people polled when already over 30,000 were in a petition signed about being against the theory of AGW? The funny thing was that all the zealots claim that the list of people in the petition was all false, despite only being able to show few names out-of-place, and now here is a far smaller number of people asked simplistic and pointed questions and the result is apparently conclusive! If only half of the petition against AGW theory is correct then there are thousands of scientists who have declared themselves quite clearly enough.
                      But who cares about polls, except politicians and their ilk!

                      So where is the peer-reviewed study which shows conclusively that CO2 is the primary cause of climate changes?
                      What about Davis, the author of the Kyoto Protocol, and his statement that clearly implies there is NOT A CONSENSUS in science?
                      What about the very careful research by Peter Taylor (author of 'CHILL') which concludes that the evidence for human caused climate changes is NOT conclusive and that there is NO CONSENSUS in science?
                      Why is it that such vague statistics claim that CO2 is responsible for somewhere between 9% and 26% of greenhouse effect? As humans are responsible for less than half of atmospheric CO2 levels then, logically, how can humans be primarily responsible for climate changes?

                      This whole issue is very polarised. There is NO CONSENSUS. So why claim that there IS consensus? To make such a claim is obviously nonsense and thereby discredits those who do so.
                      And with increasing numbers of scientists and others leaving the AGW theory each year it gets colder, then the issue will just get more and more divisive. And in an atmosphere of fear and polarisation, objectivity is left behind and the issue becomes politically/emotionally motivated, as upset and angry people take out their frustration on any dissent.
                      There is NO PROOF of AGW, only supposition and theory based on computer models.
                      The most common expression I hear is about the 'belief' in AGW, which is all most should need to show them that the whole thing has become a dogma. And the incredible peer-pressure, the biased education (showing school kids the 'Inconvenient Truth' as if it is factual, without mentioning the major points that are long proven incorrect), the experiences of plenty of scientists who are called 'deniers' and lose or have no access to funding or are ostracized by colleagues, the media saturation with fear-based inaccurate and exaggerated reports which serve only the politicians, fascistic attempts to criminalise anyone who is a 'skeptic'.
                      And yet there are so many saying that there is NO CONSENSUS and calling for debate.

                      The reason why the likes of Alex Jones, Michael Tsarion, Ian Crane, David Icke, Hoagland, and a host of other people at the cutting edge of radical thinking and exposing of government and elite scams, all consider that (after examining plenty of evidence) the theory of AGW IS a part of the greater scam and IS a way of creating fear, is because there IS so much scientific evidence that the Sun and other factors are the main causes. The fear is there to dis-empower and weaken humanity at a time when people need to be strong and prepare for great change on many levels.
                      And some people know that there really is a greater reality (as physicists are proving) and that the ways in which people 'think' is a significant and direct driver of the changes. The fear is based on attachment to physical aspect in preference to all else.

                      And yet folk in this tribe are here to explore the Earth as a living, breathing, conscious, evolving, being, far greater than humans can ever affect as much as some want us to believe, and in direct relation to the Sun (as the main driver of all changes whether physical or otherwise). All this fear that 'we won't survive', 'we must save the planet', 'everything is being destroyed', 'it's getting worse and worse all the time', are all weak and useless. It has ranting and weak people screaming at governments to 'do something' and the governments are having a laugh while using the whole theory to justify all the draconian measures they like.

                      Yet, there is NO CONSENSUS!
                      • Re: NO consensus at all!

                        Sat, August 8, 2009 - 2:49 AM
                        "Yet, there is NO CONSENSUS! "

                        Here is an interesting post from Realclimate on the consensus on climate change.
                        Makes the people understand what "the consensus" is about because the deniers tend to cloud this debate with soundbites..


                        Just what is this Consensus anyway?
                        Filed under: Climate Science FAQ — william @ 22 December 2004 - ()

                        We’ve used the term “consensus” here a bit recently (see our earlier post on the subject), without ever really defining what we mean by it. In normal practice, there is no great need to define it – no science depends on it. But it’s useful to record the core that most scientists agree on, for public presentation. The consensus that exists is that of the IPCC reports, in particular the working group I report (there are three WG’s. By “IPCC”, people tend to mean WG I). Fortunately that report is available online for all to read at www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/.

                        Its a good idea to realise that though the IPCC report contains the consensus, it didn’t form it. The IPCC process was supposed to be – and is – a summary of the science (as available at the time). Because they did their job well, it really is a good review/summary/synthesis.

                        The main points that most would agree on as “the consensus” are:

                        1. The earth is getting warmer (0.6 +/- 0.2 oC in the past century; 0.1 0.17 oC/decade over the last 30 years (see update)) [ch 2]
                        2. People are causing this [ch 12] (see update)
                        3. If GHG emissions continue, the warming will continue and indeed accelerate [ch 9]
                        4. (This will be a problem and we ought to do something about it)
                        ..........................
                        www.realclimate.org/index.ph...s-anyway/

                        For me 3 and 4 are the most important..There is consensus about this since 1990..
                        It is where the problem really is..In the future..

                        Consensus on 1 and 2 is more recent and i think less relevant (since 1997) although deniers tend to focus on these points..Because as a climate economist i tend to care about the future..
                        • Re: NO consensus at all!

                          Mon, August 10, 2009 - 6:19 AM
                          There is NOT a consensus in the IPCC, which is exactly why a significant number of prominent members have left the IPCC and stated publicly that they disagree, and some have even stated that their views were ignored within the IPCC. In other words, the agenda of the IPCC is primarily political and financial and no dissent is being allowed and no dissenters can voice their concerns.
                          To claim that there is consensus within the IPCC is therefore nonsense and discredits those who claim it!
                          The debate is not happening within the IPCC, directly because any dissent will stop the mega-profits of the 'carbon' traders and other corporate interests in maintaining the scam, as well as challenge the political hype and scam which is justifying the massive expansion of nuclear power programs, the cutting down of millions of acres of forest to grow crops for bio-fuels (to meet with the politically-decided standards), and the massive increase in taxation that has nothing to do with saving nature and everything to do with fueling the NWO and their wars! There are far too many issues at stake now for the admition that the theory has always been wrong and based on models that cannot be proven.
                          This is why there is NOT a peer-reviewed study that shows conclusively that human-caused CO2 leads to the kind of warming that happened in the late 80s and 90s. If there was such study then someone could provide it couldn't they? Clearly you cannot provide it because it does not exist!

                          The problem for the members of the church of AGW is that all they have is models and some 'circumstantial' evidence, which have formed the dogma that they adhere to. And the profits/prophets who decide government/corporate (same thing) policy on the 'war' against climate changes hold so much power because they are convenient to the global elite in their drive for population control and reduction.
                          But with the summers getting steadily cooler, the winters getting so cold that records are being broken around the planet, and the now common knowledge that the Earth has been 2 degrees warmer before there were enough humans to make much CO2, the 'believers' will be leaving the church of AGW soon enough. Then only the elite scammers, the nutters and fundamentalists will remain!

                          The Earth IS a living growing and conscious being, subject to the super-powerful energies of the star it encircles. It will survive with or without humans, so does not need 'saving'. But humans do need to stop polluting and exploiting the biosphere so that they can continue to live here.

                          Time for all the zealots to stop playing with their models and start working with the real thing!

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