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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 12:46 PMI have done some reading on the melting ice sheets
Especially the situation in Greenland seems more dangerous then previously thought..
A scramble to understand Greenland's melting ice sheets
By Andrew C. Revkin
Published: January 7, 2008
The ancient frozen dome cloaking Greenland is so vast that pilots have crashed into what they thought was a cloud bank spanning the horizon. Flying over it, one can scarcely imagine that this ice could erode fast enough to raise sea levels dangerously any time soon.
Along the flanks in spring and summer, however, the picture is very different. For a lengthening string of warm years, a lacework of blue lakes and rivulets of meltwater have been spreading ever higher on the ice cap. The melting surface darkens, absorbing up to four times as much energy from the sun as unmelted snow, which reflects sunlight. Natural drainpipes, called moulins, carry water from the surface into the depths, in some places reaching bedrock. The process slightly, but measurably, lubricates and accelerates the grinding passage of ice toward the sea.
Most important, many glaciologists say, is the breakup of huge semi-submerged clots of ice where some large Greenland glaciers, particularly along the west coast, squeeze through fjords as they meet the warming ocean. As these passages have cleared, this has sharply accelerated the flow of many of these creeping, corrugated, frozen rivers.
All of these changes have many glaciologists "a little nervous these days - shell-shocked," said Ted Scambos, the lead scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, and a veteran of both Greenland and Antarctic studies.
Some say they fear that the rise in seas in a warming world could be much greater than the upper estimate of about two feet in this century made last year by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. (Seas rose less than a foot, or 30 centimeters, in the 20th century.) The panel's assessment did not include factors known to contribute to ice flows but not understood well enough to estimate with confidence. All the panel could say was, "Larger values cannot be excluded."
A scientific scramble is under way to clarify whether the erosion of the world's most vulnerable ice sheets, in Greenland and West Antarctica, can continue to accelerate. The effort involves field and satellite analyses and sifting for clues from past warm periods, including the last warm span between ice ages, which peaked about 125,000 years ago and had sea levels 12 to 16 feet higher than today's.
The Arctic Council, representing countries with Arctic territory, has commissioned a report on Greenland's ice trends, to be completed before the 2009 round of climate-treaty talks in Copenhagen, at which the world's nations have pledged to settle on a long-term plan for limiting human-caused global warming.
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www.iht.com/articles/200...ience/ice.php
Very telling was that Noble prize winner Rajendra Pachauri pleaded to include this risk in the next IPCC report..
Antarctic and Greenland ice may melt at same time: scientist
Doug Mellgren | January 9, 2008 - 6:27AM
OSLO - The next report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change should deal with the "frightening" possibility that the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets start melting at the same time, the chief UN climate scientist said today.
The panel, which shared the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize with US activist and politician Al Gore, has released four climate assessment reports already, including summaries for policy makers that are approved by government representatives.
Though there are no firm plans for a fifth report, the panel is still inviting scientists to submit material on glaciers in both the far north and south, IPCC chairman Rajendra Pachauri said.
"My hope is in the next report, if there is one, will be able to provide much better information on the possibility of these two large bodies of ice possibly melting, in what seems what seems like a frightening situation," Pachauri said during a visit to Oslo.
Pachauri is set to visit Antarctica next week with a Norwegian delegation, after being invited during his December visit to Norway to accept the Nobel prize with Gore.
He said evidence of climate change was most apparent at the world's poles, especially in the Arctic, where the climate panel says the melting of the vast glaciers of Greenland could cause a four-metre rise in sea levels in coming centuries.
Less is known, he said, about the impact of global warming at the Earth's opposite pole - on the vast West Antarctic Ice Sheet, a wasteland of ice and snow roughly the size of Texas.
"Unless you go to these places, you just don't get a feeling for the reality," Pachauri said. "You can read as much as you want on these subjects but it doesn't really enter your system, you don't really appreciate the enormity of what you have."
If ice sheets at both poles begin melting simultaneously, the results could be extreme, he said.
"Both Greenland and the West Antarctic Ice Sheet are huge bodies of ice and snow which are sitting on land. If through a process of melting they collapse and are submerged in the sea then we really are talking about sea level rises of several metres," he said.
www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/...3.html -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 12:50 PMBundle up kids!
It is so obvious once I did look past the Warming and melting.. to the actual results of this giant matter transformation (Ice to Liqs)
Tssssssssss! Thats the sound Her skin will make -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 11:44 AMPRESS RELEASE: SSRC 1-2008
Changes in the Sun’s Surface to Bring Next Climate Change
January 2, 2008
Today, the Space and Science Research Center, (SSRC) in Orlando, Florida announces that it has confirmed the recent web announcement of NASA solar physicists that there are substantial changes occurring in the sun’s surface. The SSRC has further researched these changes and has concluded they will bring about the next climate change to one of a long lasting cold era.
Today, Director of the SSRC, John Casey has reaffirmed earlier research he led that independently discovered the sun’s changes are the result of a family of cycles that bring about climate shifts from cold climate to warm and back again.
“We today confirm the recent announcement by NASA that there are historic and important changes taking place on the sun’s surface. This will have only one outcome - a new climate change is coming that will bring an extended period of deep cold to the planet. This is not however a unique event for the planet although it is critically important news to this and the next generations. It is but the normal sequence of alternating climate changes that has been going on for thousands of years. Further according to our research, this series of solar cycles are so predictable that they can be used to roughly forecast the next series of climate changes many decades in advance. I have verified the accuracy of these cycles’ behavior over the last 1,100 years relative to temperatures on Earth, to well over 90%.”
As to what these changes are Casey says, “The sun’s surface flows have slowed dramatically as NASA has indicated. This process of surface movement, what NASA calls the “conveyor belt” essentially sweeps up old sunspots and deposits new ones. NASA’s studies have found that when the surface movement slows down, sunspot counts drop significantly. All records of sunspot counts and other proxies of solar activity going back 6,000 years clearly validates our own findings that when we have sunspot counts lower then 50 it means only one thing - an intense cold climate, globally. NASA says the solar cycle 25, the one after the next that starts this spring will be at 50 or lower. The general opinion of the SSRC scientists is that it could begin even sooner within 3 years with the next solar cycle 24. What we are saying today is that my own research and that of the other scientists at the SSRC verifies that NASA is right about one thing – a solar cycle of 50 or lower is headed our way. With this next solar minimum predicted by NASA, what I call a “solar hibernation,” the SSRC forecasts a much colder Earth just as it has transpired before for thousands of years. If NASA is the more accurate on the schedule, then we may see even warmer temperatures before the bottom falls out. If the SSRC and other scientists around the world are correct then we have only a few years to prepare before 20-30 years of lasting and possibly dangerous cold arrive.”
When asked about what this will mean to the average person on the street, Casey was firm. “The last time this particular cycle regenerated was over 200 years ago. I call it the “Bi-Centennial Cycle” solar cycle. It took place between 1793 and 1830, the so-called Dalton Minimum, a period of extreme cold that resulted in what historian John D. Post called the ‘last great subsistence crisis.’ With that cold came massive crops losses, food riots, famine and disease. I believe this next climate change will be much stronger and has the potential to once more cause widespread crop losses globally with the resultant ill effects. The key difference for this next Bi-Centennial Cycle’s impact versus the last is that we will have over 8 billion mouths to feed in the next coldest years where as we had only 1 billion the last time. Among other effects like social and economic disruption, we are facing the real prospect of the ‘perfect storm of global food shortages’ in the next climate change. In answer to the question, everyone on the street will be affected.”
Given the importance of the next climate change Casey was asked whether the government has been notified. “Yes, as soon as my research revealed these solar cycles and the prediction of the coming cold era with the next climate change, I notified all the key offices in the Bush administration including both parties in the Senate and House science committees as well as most of the nation’s media outlets. Unfortunately, because of the intensity of coverage of the UN IPCC and man made global warming during 2007, the full story about climate change is very slow in getting told. These changes in the sun have begun. They are unstoppable. With the word finally starting to get out about the next climate change, hopefully we will have time to prepare. Right now, the newly organized SSRC is the leading independent research center in the US and possibly worldwide, that is focused on the next climate change. Some of the world’s brightest scientists, also experts in solar physics and the next climate change have joined with me. In the meantime we will do our best to spread the word along with NASA and others who can see what is about to take place for the Earth’s climate. Soon, I believe this will be recognized as the most important climate story of this century.”
More information on the Space and Science Research Center is available at: www.spaceandscience.net
The previous NASA announcement was made at:
science.nasa.gov/headlines...grange.htm -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 11:51 AMThe gov't is gonna be so happy to hear this.. oil for heat.
Stock your seeds today.. even if it doesn't come.. happy harvest!
Will Santa be forced to Florida?
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 12:16 PMI just read that Japan is expected to get hit very hard by greenhouse gas (mostly CO2) induced warming...
Japan Sees Temperatures Up 4.7 C on Global Warming
REUTERS NEWS SERVICE
JAPAN: January 10, 2008
TOKYO - The average temperature in Japan could rise by up to 4.7 degrees Celsius (8.5 Fahrenheit) this century unless steps are taken to combat global warming, the Environment Ministry said on Wednesday.
Japan, the world's second-biggest economy, could face a rise in the average temperature of 1.3-4.7 C (2.3-8.5 F) in the 2070-2099 period from levels registered in 1961-1990, the ministry said in a report.
The rise in temperatures could boost rainfall in Japan by up to 16.4 percent, the report said.
A panel of experts set up by the ministry will analyse the possible impact of rising temperatures and produce an outline in May of steps Japan could take to combat it.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected a "best estimate" last February that world temperatures would rise by 1.8 to 4.0 C (3.2-7.2 F) this century.
The UN body also said rising temperatures could lead to more hunger, water shortages and ever more extinctions of animals and plants.
It said crop yields could drop by 50 percent by 2020 in some countries and projected a steady shrinking of Arctic sea ice in summers. (Reporting by Teruaki Ueno)
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 12:33 PMContradictory nonsense!
When there have been previous 'warm periods' humans have flourished with abundant food and great development for decades.
All this 'could' happen 'if' 'maybe' 'perhaps' is all computer models based on what is put it and not what is actually happening or happened historically! -
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where does the electricity come???
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 12:16 PMBut where does the electricity come from to power the car?
About 30% of all fossil fuel consumed in the United States is used to make electricity. Conversely, most electricity, about 70%, produced in the US is generated using fossil fuels, especially coal.
Then the power travels down resistance (power line) where a substantial amount of the power is lost before it gets to the car.
Is it really any more eco friendly to produce electricity for your car by burning oil/coal at a power plant vs. your 3 liter V6? Or is it just an illusion to make as feel better about our selves? -
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Re: where does the electricity come???
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 1:15 PMWe can feel better with solar power purchased by the savings from Gasoline.
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 12:43 PMInteresting NASA article you posted there...
But it does not talk about the temperatures on Earth..
The position of NASA on global warming is very clear..
Global Warming
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The main human activities that contribute to global warming are the burning of fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) and the clearing of land. Most of the burning occurs in automobiles, in factories, and in electric power plants that provide energy for houses and office buildings. The burning of fossil fuels creates carbon dioxide, whose chemical formula is CO2. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that slows the escape of heat into space. Trees and other plants remove CO2 from the air during photosynthesis, the process they use to produce food. The clearing of land contributes to the buildup of CO2 by reducing the rate at which the gas is removed from the atmosphere or by the decomposition of dead vegetation.
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the vast majority of climatologists believe that increases in the sun's energy have contributed only slightly to recent warming.
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www.nasa.gov/worldbook/g...rldbook.html -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 1:27 PMWe have to also take into account Our reality, and the effect we have on alternate out-sourcing energies.. for we all influence change across the spectrum.
The human race is not only responsible for the unnatural gas presence.. But the negative energies that we as individual entities add to the whole dimensional network. This is a harder medium to explore than the inside of the sun.. yet I'm glad that we are aware of so many influential properties to come to some sort of reasonable conclusion on Change's source by the end of this century! -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 4:43 PMAnd btw unless you are Sure that the japanese research was by an independent.. Japan makes a whopp of Yen off of petro-based products and techno-shit. Top 5 in the world for Big business firms no doubt -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 5:32 PMwww.zenncars.com/specifica...index.html
vehicles like this canadian manufactured ZENN will certainly help the planet in regards to the emissions
starting at $12,750 -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 6:39 PMPretty cool cars. Do you know anything about the service and maintenance? The only thing I'm reluctant to buy such a vehicle, because if it breaks down, fixing will be expensive. Or not? -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 10:07 PMi wish i could tell you.
but i did post a message to them and i will put the response over here when i get it !
woot !
its only a matter of time :)
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 10:25 PMliving in a small city this has a wide enough drive radius , the 40 kmh max speed is a bit slow but it does look functional in the video clip it seems to have pep. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 11:57 PMBut isn't there a controversy about the batteries that electric cars use? I don't know too much information, and I didn't look all the way into the Zenn website, but as I understand it, the chemicals inside the batteries are very harmful to the environment as well. So is it really a better choice? -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 12:47 AMthat is a good question.
im sure the batties need to be properly disposed of it will definitely be a hidden market. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 12:48 AMit should eliminate over 5000 lbs of fuel wate per year per car , how much does a battery weigh ? -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 8:08 AMnice electric car but where are you gonna get at 25 mph with a 35 mph range? it might work for inner city commuting but as a real car?
it is interesting the thing about global cooling psy, i am not sure if it will come sooner than the warming though,,,,,,,i think there will be a lot of extremes both ways before the next twenty years is out! -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 9:14 AMplease check out "alternative fuel vehicles" tribe,
where we have active ongoing discussions about all this.
there are some links to electric cars, etc. and more!
in many of the posts.
come on, check it out!
my post there is about diy hydrogen, basically converting our current gas guslers to electric cars.
btw, those little electric cars should be simple to work on.
there's just not much in it. it's like a golf cart.
but, there are some faster, higher tech electrics on the way soon.
should've been here yrs ago.
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 4:27 PM"The position of NASA on global warming is very clear.."
Yes lots of scientists in NASA are rightly against the AGW theory because it is based only on computer models and theories and dismisses so much hard science! In fact, according to scientists who work within NASA and who are associated with NASA and its projects know very well that NASA itself is virtually split 50-50 on the subject of AGW. So to claim that NASA somehow is united in its views is a pure fantasy and typical of those who rely on theories and models!
As Michael Griffin NASA Administrator said earlier last year, "First of all, I don't think it's within the power of human beings to assure that the climate does not change, as millions of years of history have shown, and second of all, I guess I would ask which human beings - where and when - are to be accorded the privilege of deciding that this particular climate that we have right here today, right now is the best climate for all other human beings. I think that's a rather arrogant position for people to take."
www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html
www.space-travel.com/reports...999.html
And then when the AGW zealots reacted with rage Griffin said: “Unfortunately, this is an issue which has become far more political than technical, and it would have been well for me to have stayed out of it.” “All I can really do is apologize to all you guys.... I feel badly that I caused this amount of controversy over something like this."
One of Griffin's most angry critics was James Hansen (another employee of NASA), who in the 1970s was talking about global cooling and a coming ice age (then changed his mind in the mid-eighties) and whose more recent figures and projections (which have formed the basis for so much IPCC modelling) have been shown to be seriously flawed by the research of Steve Macintyre (so much so that NASA revised its climate figures dramatically down!).
As any true scientists in NASA and everywhere else know, CO2 is less than 10% of greenhouse gases and humans are responsible for less than half of that percentage, while the majority (around 90%) of greenhouse gas is water vapour. Which means that humans are directly responsible for less than 5% of AGW. Which means that AGW based on human created CO2 is a nonsense based on flawed computer models and nothing to do with objective science.
When people who should know better keep saying the same lie (about CO2 caused AGW) over and over again, it raises the very serious question about their motives, agendas and who is directing them! -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 11:00 PMI posted a link to the NASA site, you did not..tells me enough..
Either way, anybody that states that predicted human induced global heating clearly shows a lack of understanding of Climate Science..People should not critisize what they don't understand..
The prediction of future global heating is not based on models but on basic physics..
There is a great article about it on Real Climate..
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Prelude: It's the physics, stupid
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The anticipated increase in temperature was predicted long before it was detectable in the atmosphere, indeed long before it was known that atmospheric CO2 really was increasing; it was first predicted by Arrhenius in 1896 using extremely simple radiation balance ideas, and was reproduced using modern radiation physics by Manabe and co-workers in the 1960's. Neither of these predictions rests on general circulation models, which came in during subsequent decades and made more detailed forecasts possible.
Still, the basic prediction of warming is founded on very fundamental physical principles relating to infrared absorption by greenhouse gases, theory of blackbody radiation, and atmospheric moist thermodynamics. All these individual elements have been verified to high accuracy in laboratory experiments and field observations. For a time, there was some remaining uncertainty about whether water vapor feedback would amplify warming in the way hypothesized in the early energy balance models, but a decade or two of additional observational and theoretical work has shown that there is no real reason to doubt the way in which general circulation models calculate the feedback. When modified by inclusion of the cooling effect of anthropogenic aerosols, the theory gives a satisfactory account of the pattern of 20th and 21st century temperature change.
No other theory based on quantified physical principles has been able to do the same. If somebody comes along and has the bright idea that, say, global warming is caused by phlogiston raining down from the Moon, that does not make everything we know about thermodynamics, infrared absorption, energy balance, and temperature suddenly go away. Rather, it is the job of the phlogiston advocate to quantify the effects of phlogiston on energy balance, and incorporate them in a consistent way beside the existing climate forcings. Virtually all of the attempts to poke holes in the anthropogenic greenhouse theory lose sight of this simple and unassailable principle.
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www.realclimate.org/index.ph...h_lang/in
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 11:04 PMInteresting....
Thx.
It sure doesn't feel to cool right now.... my experience here in BC is it is warmer than usual. Melting all around me in the Kootenays when it should be snowing white fluffy's. It does dump snow, but then it gets warm and either rains or lets a lot of the top snow. It feels like March, but its January.
The Sun is very active. It is not just Earth warming, the solar system seems to be warming right now according to Space News.
I do not doubt Psi that we are heading toward a freeze at some point, but right now it seems abit warmer than usual. The old timers around here said that Kootenay Lake use to freeze every year so much that they could drive cars on it. The Lake has not frozen in 50 years.
I wonder when the freeze is going to start? When the sun is at Solar Max? Will the other planets freeze too?
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 11:37 PMmy grandfather told me a story about driving horses across okanogan lake and its not frozen like since the 30s probably -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 1:11 PMFrom the 40s to the mid 70s, when the global temperatures were falling despite ever increasing CO2, here in the UK we had frozen rivers and lakes, lots of skating, extreme cold winters and lots of snow. We had a very warm drought summer in 1976 and then an extreme cold winter in 1980 and all kinds of other years in between.
What climate scientists know is that the weather and global temperatures have been changing regardless of CO2 levels for thousands of years. What the fear-mongers want humanity to believe is that humans are causing it, so that there will be lots of fear and easy to control and manipulate populations. And look the hype is working!
While the scare-mongers claim that it is warmer than ever before, the real climate scientists are showing very clearly that it has been far warmer than now when there was an insignificant level of atmospheric CO2 and even far colder when CO2 was rising rapidly. The CO2 causes 'global warming theory is just plain wrong when the true science is known. Water vapour is the main greenhouse gas and every objective scientist knows that, so the people who are claiming that CO2 is driving climate changes are wrong (which means that many of them are devious manipulators or brainwashed into working for the nuclear agenda, for centralised governments and to prevent the evolution of humanity through the long-prophecied shift of ages!).
So the false 'theory' that humans can prevent the climate changes through reduction of CO2 is not scientific but politically motivated. It is about stopping necessary preparations and instilling a belief in a false doctrine. It is about focus on fear, guilt and shame and bears all the hallmarks of a 'religion'.
What is amazing is to see people who claim to believe in a living 'Gaia' but who would like us all to believe that Gaia is full of fear, is under threat from humans, cannot cope with the changes, is not a conscious evolving 'being' after all!
Yet just like a living being, Gaia has a frequency and a 'heartbeat', and, just like another living being, the Sun has a frequency and a 'heartbeat', just as the Moon and all the planets have their own frequencies and heartbeats.
So the planetary elders have repeatedly stated that humans must come to know the cycles of the Sun and must work with the energies of the Sun again (just as they did for thousands of years before the Piscean Age - building solar altars and solar energy storage structures, holding coordinated solar ceremonies around the globe), partly because it is vital for humans to balance the masculine aspect and move into the Fifth World/Golden Age/Aquarian Age.
And many objective scientists have repeatedly revealed the power of the Sun and its cycles, and how the Sun can clearly be shown to have the same frequencies as the peaks and troughs of Gaia's atmospheric temperatures, which has lead lots of scientists to understand that when the Sun's energy wanes after 2012, the planet faces rapid cooling, and humans will be well-advised to prepare. These cycles of warming and cooling have been going on since the planet was created and can be shown through the massive body of gathered data from around the globe.
In these ways humanity can understand that there is NO prevention of the climate changes because they are with us now. There is only preparation for the purifications that are necessary for humanity to be ready for the vibrational shifts.
These are the realities of the living conscious planet and Sun, of the living and conscious other planets and the greater reality which the fear-mongers do not want humans to work with because it reveals the weakness of the focus on the physical aspect and how reality is far greater than the eyes can see and humanity are 'Children of the Gods' and 'Children of the Earth', being invited to 'grow up'!
As the wise Hopi said "there is a river flowing very fast" and to "let go of the shore.." "to flow with the river", "look around see who is there and celebrate". They did not suggest fear and separation but have spoken consistently about the great change from the Two-Hearted path to the One Heart, which as been the same type of message from various traditional planetary elders, including Maya and Australian Aborigines.
There is NO prevention, ONLY preparation! -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 1:23 PM"While the scare-mongers claim that it is warmer than ever before, the real climate scientists are showing very clearly that it has been far warmer than now when there was an insignificant level of atmospheric CO2 and even far colder when CO2 was rising rapidly. The CO2 causes 'global warming theory is just plain wrong when the true science is known."
Apparently the "fear-mongers" are getting far more articles published in peer-reviewed scientific journals, which tend to be the litmus test of real science.
scholar.google.com/scholar -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Tue, January 15, 2008 - 10:10 PMI am loath to memtion politics, but it is interesting that the preachers of "global warming" are primariy people who are attempting to create fear in order to push their own economic and social theories and agenda's.
.....Having said that, to me, global warming/cooling is just weather on a somewhat grander scale. Yes we humans would be well advised to reduce/ recycle/become more efficient. for many reasons. ...But out of fear is not one of them.
For me, respecting Earth, and the People's of Earth, (Stone, Plant, Animal and Human), is the reason to behave ourselves. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Tue, January 15, 2008 - 10:45 PM"I am loath to memtion politics, but it is interesting that the preachers of "global warming" are primariy people who are attempting to create fear in order to push their own economic and social theories and agenda's."
That's what "preachers" do. The same goes for the global warming deniers. The difference is that there's stronger scientific support for global warming than there is against it. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 16, 2008 - 4:38 PM"The difference is that there's stronger scientific support for global warming than there is against it."
In my understanding, that statement is exactly the converse of how the scientific method actually works.
Just saying. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 16, 2008 - 4:41 PMHow so? I'm simply saying that one side has presented more evidence than the other side. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 16, 2008 - 6:08 PMBut if Global Warming continues or A Severe Cold Spell happens, we will be in the middle of it and all the Discussions won't change it one way or the other!
Read each others answers with an open mind, don't charge in and ridicule. It doesn't lead anywhere.....I can see both sides of what is being said. Why argue!
We have a saying here in Australia..... The Tall Poppy Syndrome!
What if all the People that are saying Global Warming, just what if it does swing the other way....you just don't know!
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 16, 2008 - 10:20 PM"One side has more ev..."
That's among the many problems of the claims to ...anything.
Science isn't about consensous. A collection of facts doesn't prove anything. Opinions and beliefs don't "prove" anything, ....scientifically that is. A theory is only proved when it has been proven by time and study and repeated experiments.
None of that has been done to "prove" the theory of "global warming".
So far all we really know is that some places on Earth seem to be warming. Some places on Earth are cooling. Some are about the same. That's called natural cycles of Nature. It's also called weather.
And if Earth should be warming, which is by no means proven, then a very good case can be made that Earth is warming by the same process that presently seems to also be warming the other planets of our solar system.
"Bard" is so right. Things will be as things will be. Life changes. Climate changes. We've had ice ages. We've had dinosuar jungles. Just ask the Native Peoples of the ice bridge from Siberia, or the Vikings of Greenland, or the Neanderthals of Europe.
Live. Breathe. Be happy. Try to be the best steward of Earth and All as you can. Not from fear. But from the recognition of the Unity of Life. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 16, 2008 - 10:32 PMProof does not belong to the realm of science. There is only evidence, and that evidence indicates that global temperatures have risen over the past century. In addition, it seems that a majority of scientists(though certainly not all) believe that the evidence points to anthropogenic cause for this warming. Furthermore, the vast majority of those who've had their finding published in reputable, peer-reviewed scientific journals support this theory. -
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Re: A cold spell soon to replace global warming
Wed, January 16, 2008 - 11:51 PMBut what if this is the warming before the cold spell. If and when the Major current stops flownig through to the Arctic regions. When that current stops completely, will it trigger another Cold Spell like it has happened many times in the Past!
If it does, will it be in our lifetimes, if so....be Prepared to start building Igloos or move South for the Winter, cause it will be a long One!
Here, we have had a cool, wet Summer.....nothing like this in the Last 8 years.
But, what IF!
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