My husband eats meat, and I gave it up in 1994. He has to cook it himself, 'cause I can touch the stuff. About the furthest I'll go is thowing something frozen in the oven. I have to say, b/c he has to cook it himself, there isn't much meat-eating going on. Fine by me. ;]

I am a single Dad of three young men ( now 18, 22 & 25 )

I have been a vegetarian for years and when my sons were young, I cooked only vegetarian meals for them. When they reached the age of about 16 or so, or expressed an interest in eating some meat, I cooked small amounts of meat for them along with discussion and education concerning the dangers of meat.

I cannot cook Beef as the smell absolutely nauseates me as well as the fact that I believe that the beef is badly contaminated with hormones, antibiotics and the BSE prions.

They still eat small amounts of meat at home and whatever they choose to away from home. This has worked well for me as I love to cook and don't mind cooking an additional dish or two.

Two of my sons are living away from home and still eat pretty much the same way at their own homes.
Geoff.

LOL!

Yeah, sorry for the flippant response earlier. Couldn't resist.

I was raised with meals built around meat and accented with veggies; these days we mostly to do the opposite, with a lot of whole grains.

I am happy for all the info on wheatgrass.

In the old world (which my grandfather taught me about) Indians NEVER ate meat unless they had too. All animals wre highly respected. Their diet was mainly herbs. berries and what they grew. Women who were carrying child were not allowed to eat meat at all. (In our native tribe) Not until the ice age came...

If we observe Carnivores (tiger, lion, wolf etc), we will see that they are provided with strong curved fangs (canine teeth) and claws which are used as hooks or knives, adapted to tightly grasp, bite and kill their prey. Their molars are perfect to grind raw meat; but these same creatures could not grasp a flying insect in the air, or pick a fruit from a tree, or feed themselves with green grass, for they would be unable to cut or chew it conveniently. Their natural physical conditions do not allow them. They lack the appropriate skills for that.

Schoen, says in his study on the scientific fundamentals of vegetarianism: "The molars in Carnivores have different sharp ends which work like those of scissors; whereas in Frugivores, they are longer and wider and are only used for smashing (grinding) their food just like a mill works--quite different to ferocious animals." He also stated in one of his works: "The molars of Frugivores, lack sharp ends and therefore do not serve that purpose of mincing meat, whereas Omnivores like bears (and others) are provided with both kinds of molars--those with sharp ends, and those with flat ends. They also have fangs (like ferocious animals) without which they could not grasp their prey. Their incisors (cutting teeth) are similar to those of the Frugivore family. Therefore, with regard to their teeth, it is apparent--as demonstrated--that man belongs to the latter, by nature."

The Cecum and the Appendix are more developed in Herbivores than in Carnivores. The Appendix in Herbivores (procesus verniformis) is used to collect/accumulate vegetable substances which are difficult to digest, like roughage/hard fibres. In humans, it becomes very small when they grow into adults but it is relatively big in children. According to the well-known biogenic theorem, our ancestors fed themselves with vegetables but eventually the habit of eating meat was apprehended.

No meat-eating animals perspire. Carnivores do not transpire by their skins, but Herbivores do. If humans have transpiration, they must belong to the latter category by natural principle. That is how trophology/trophonomy (trofologia), shows the inner nature of man.

According to "estamatología"--the science of the senses/the science of sensorial connection to the environment/the science of the sensorial organs/the study of the senses--we should feel attracted to the smell of blood and live flesh, if we were meant to devour other animals. The sight of dead raw meat should appeal to us and entice our appetite if we actually were meat-eaters, and when feeling hunger pangs, we should run after our prey, catch and kill it, devouring its flesh with pleasure. Whose mouth waters in front of a stinking foul-smelling pig? Can we obtain any flavour from its bloody flesh? But we learnt how to transform taste by using fire and spices. Only then does the flesh become edible. We perverted our senses and degenerated our race through disease caused by wrong diet. Only children whose instincts are purer, resist being given meat which they find hard to chew. They also find it difficult to break up the muscular fibres properly. This is because we lack the proper natural tools for this. Their sensitive awareness is healthier for so are their bodies. Parents force them to eat meat in order to have the so-called balanced diet --completely unaware of the harm inflicted on their healthy little bodies. On the contrary, the sight and scent of fresh ripe fruit pleases our senses. Their tempting colours seduce our appetite. It may be a clue to our original diet, that of our ancestors.

That is why it is possible to spend an entire life living just on vegetables and fruit, as many people do. On the contrary, no one can stand a single week (not even 5 days) on just meat, without the aid of a piece of bread, or chips, or some other vegetable food that enables better ingestion (and digestion). However, we do not need the help of meat to ease the digestion of vegetables. Why does the body crave for 'something else' when given just meat; why do we need to mix meat with some roughage in order to allow a quicker evacuation? That is because meat contains certain (poisonous) substances like creatine, leaukomaine, xanthine, sarcina, uric acid and some more which are highly toxic, for our nature--but not for that of Carnivores, for which these substances are necessary, in order to keep them healthy.

Omnivorous means 'eating everything, devouring all kinds of food'. That is, indeed, the description of 'modern' man, the precarious species we have become nowadays. Medical science tries to demonstrate that since the dawn of their origins, humans have been Omnivorous by natural principle. I would dare to say that we became Omnivorous by accident, or better, by degeneration rather than by original design. That is a common mistake: to think that just because we were brought up in an 'Omnivorous' family, it must have always been like this for our ancestors. Maybe the families of our ancestors taught each other to lead healthier lifestyles, sticking to the most possible natural diets because they knew it would enable them to avoid disease. It is well known that strong toxins contained in meats such as uric acid, trigger arthritis and similar illnesses related to articulations/joints.

Omnivorous animals, like bears, never mix different foods in the same meal, in the way that men do--just to satisfy their greed. Doing that would be a terribly bad combination resulting in heavy digestion, overloading digestive and eliminating organs, which are suddenly given too much difficult work. How to deal with so many different substances is tough work--for each substance needs different enzymes and gastric juices which cannot be held at the same time, for they are incompatible, and produce a clash of acids, with the consequential/resulting pain, gases and other disturbances or troubles like stomach upsets, intestinal discomfort and headaches. What tells bears which foods to eat in order to feel healthy? Instinct does. They know by natural wisdom what to do. They always eat different foods in separate meals; they choose purely raw meat if they get some prey--without mixing it with vegetable food--or else just vegetables and nothing else. They have, as stated before, two kinds of molars: one kind with sharp ends for tearing meat, and the other kind--flat ones--for crushing small fruits, roots, branches and to smash any vegetable food. Man is only provided with just the last kind. No animal needs artificial devices to make their food edible, even less to get it. But we need weapons to hunt, and knives and stoves, because our 'claws' and 'teeth' are not strong enough nor appropriate/suitable for the work. If we were meat-eaters, we would not need to soften the flesh of animals in stews in order to destroy the strong muscular fibres, or mix it with vegetables (thanks to vegetables we do not die of intoxification from the meat).

Naturalists believe that eating meat is a horrible attempt against nature and our health for we were not designed for it. Our wrong diet is the main cause of our illnesses. According to a microbian test made by Dr Kellogg (cereal producer) from the States (USA), it was found that every cm3 of the tested meats had the following quantity of harmful bacteria (poisonous microbes) producing strong uric acid in the blood.

On the contrary, he found that in analysing several fruits and vegetables, no trace of harmful bacteria could be seen, but instead, enzymes and citric acid were present, useful for the preservation of the organism and protection of the immune system from disease, thanks to their quality of microbiocide.



"We now know that man inhabited warm areas, allowing the favourable conditions for a fruit regimen, which according to the Anatomic laws, is his natural diet." - Charles Darwin

"I am a stronger follower of Veganism by principle, not just because of moral and aesthetic reasons. I truly believe in a Vegetarian lifestyle and I have my faith and hopes in a change of human destiny, thanks to the physical effects and benefits of a healthier diet and its influence on the character of the people. It will bring about some benefit and improvement to human society." - Albert Einstein

"If someone seriously wants to live a real life, his first decision should be not to kill any animal for its meat." - Tolstoy

"Those who really want to restrain their violent passions, will do better by starting with their palates." - Ghandi


May all beings open to love themselves, others and all creatures great and small.... this is a great link to share with your children.

www.themeatrix.com/

peace

I don't buy the blood-type argument and think it's completely bogus.

It seems as though it was made up by people who want to continue eating meat as those are the only ones I hear using it to support their habit. I've never heard a vegetarian use the argument.

Ha! Yes a grilled steak does taste nice. I've eaten less meat as I've gotten older, largely because of laziness (nuked frozen vegetables with soy protein are painfully easy to prepare) also because of less constipation when I eat lots of vegetables and no meat. These days I eat hardly any meat. I like chicken salad though, and I'm not above a burger or steak from time to time. Oh and if someone gives me deer meat, I'll sure chunk it, freeze it, crockpot with BBQ sauce it and enjoy :D

As implied by an earlier post in this thread, moderation is the ticket.

Hi just thought I'd reply to the "but it taste nice arguement"....

Thos of you who believe that taste is a valid argument may like to know that if this is true for animals then it is, as is argued by canibals, true for human flesh. Some excellent and very convincing arguments for not eating meat were made by Henry Salt (1880's to 1920's). Arguments he made in his book the case for vegetarianism. Ghandi said after reading this book whilst in London that after reading Salt's work he became "a vegetarian by choice" (as opposed to birth). Salts main argument is that just because something tastes nice is no justification for eating it.. the argument of a cannibal.

What Salt argues is that meat is not necessary in order to provide nourishment (true, although some dispute it but the fact is a large proportion of the world survives and is healthy on a vegetarian diet) and that the animal does not wish to be eaten. As human beings we are able to identify with that wish and as humanitarian beings grant it. In essence we have the cognative ability to realise the animals desire not to die at our hands. Such abilities are arguable what distinguish as as human beings. Salts arguments are timeless, they have stood for over 100 years and I would recomend reading the anthology of his work (sorry I don't have a reference but I had a remainder copy so pretty sure it's available via amason, abe etc).

A further argument is proposed in the book Devouring a hungry planet, the meat business (edited by Tansy.. I think). This argues that the cost of meat production in terms of input reduces the productivity of land, the factor is near 20:1. With a population of over 6 billion and much of that population switching to high meat diets the presure on land to produce grows... In fact each meat eater requires 20 times the land to produce his/her food than a vegetarian... If we all maintain high meat diets how do we propose to produce it? We have seen over the last 40 years a decline in habitat and biodiversity as a consequence of land being bought into agricultural production largely to produce fodder to feed domestic animals which in turn feed the meat market.

Meat may taste good, it may be nutritious but it is not essential. If, as its increasing production does, threaten the survival of the planets diversity we should consider whether or not it is a luxury we can afford.

another issue that is rarely discused is the globalisation of meat.... huge production takes place in the far east, much of which is destined for western markets. These markets have grown as much out of legislative changes in the west as they have out of direct demand. In Europe now the battery farming of chickens is destined to be phased out by 2009 (it will be deemed cruel after but not before that date???). The demand for this cheap meat however is not being addressed and so the production is switching to the far east (just like manufacturing and service industries) where wages are lower and legislation in welfare is lacking. One of the likeli and very real consequences of this "national scale" meat production is to provide extreme conditions in which diseases (i.e. Asian bird flu) can become established and mutate... there has been a lot of this in the news recently.

At every corner one turns one finds another reason why we should address our desire for meat...
In summary the three main reasons are:

1) it is a purely human ability to identify with the wants and to grant such wants of our fellow creatures. They don't want to be eaten so as a human one can grant that wish whereas an animal is likely to be intellectually unable to make this realisation.
2)meat is expensive in land and energy consumption and with the huge global population we must reconsider our requirement for food against the desire to maintain the Earths bio-diversity.

3) intensive crop production does not harbour virus or other diseases which can directly threaten our own survival whereas intensive meat production can and in recent times has.

But one can continue to argue that it tastes nice and so eat it... personally I don't anymore but I will confess that I miss it... Meat does taste nice but that is (IMHO) and Salt's before no arguement.

regards,

greenman-23

ALLERGIES AND SENSITIVITIES:

Wheatgrass is different to wheat, as one is a green vegetable, the other a grain. The green vegetable grass contains no gluten and is therefore no more allergic than spinach or lettuce. In fact it contains anti-allergic factors. Since allergies are immune responses to toxic irritants, detoxification is crucial to any allergy treatment problem.

Grass is a complete protien and a complete food. Ask any cow and look at its muscles. :-)
Grass contains "live" enzymes and amino acids, which many people vegetarian and non-vegatarian alike are gravely lacking in there diet.

Optimum health come when the insides (blood) of your body and colon are cleansed enough so that you can FULLY absorb your food. When you kill cook or heat your food you are killing off valuable nutrients. When we are clean inside our body we can eat an orange and recives all 11 nutrients avalable to us. But when we are too poisoned with all this dying, decaying fecal matter that has been lining our intestines and colon wall for years, we maybe only absorb a couple.

So many of us only clean the "outside surface" of their bodies but never the inside. It is our furosious appetites for food (especially the dead, dying, broiled, & burned) that enslave us. Trillions of dollars going to the hospitals and pharmecutical depos, made off of us the dying, from eating death.

Someone sent this article/link to me. It was refreshing and further adds to what my own Grandfather told me...

www.maliburaw.com/Native_Ve...rianism_1.htm

Love & light to you...and all.

Laura,

Your poor friend sounds like a complete mess, health-wise. Usually with Fibro myalgia or Lyme disease, one of the ways back to health is a vegetarian diet. I suppose your friend just needs to do whatever she needs to do. Any idea how she got into the horrible state in the first place or has she always been sickly?

what about beans?

From what I understand, the United States alone throws away more than enough food to feed the world's hungry. It's a matter of distribution, not scarce resources.

I agree 100% Jesse! I am a recent born again chicken eater. I was on a vegetarian diet for about 7 or 8 years and about 2 years or so ago started to get intense cravings for chicken. I denied these cravings and would try to eat more foods with protein (figuring that was why I was having the cravings). About 6 months ago I just gave in to the cravings because I was listening to my body and figured there was something in chicken that my body was missing and I wasn't getting it through the other foods I was eating.

I dislike when people come down on others for their choices. Yes, I also agree that Americans in general could deal with eating less meat, hell we could deal with eating less period! We are a society of glutenous people...we always want more, more, more! But if someone decides to eat strictly veg or eat meat, that is their choice! If people are trying to eat consciously (free range, organic, locally grown) then that is a huge step in the right direction. If more people did that, regardless of their diet choice, then we might see some changes in the world overall.

It does no one any good to think they are better than anyone else. That's how we get into the world-wide messes we are in right now!

wheatgrass is yummy. lots of people have to hold their noses to drink it, but I think it tastes like sweet green heaven.

reading all of your posts here, I'm realizing again how strongly people feel one way or the other about meat. I could insert the reasons why I choose to be vegan here, and insist upon how much healthier most (not all) people would feel, bodily and karmicly, how much it is better for the planet and animals, etc.. but I really do believe that your diet is about the most personal thing there is, and it's entirely up to you to decide what it contains or doesn't. no one should go around insisting that everyone else limit themselves to one thing or another, and it doesn't work anyway. you just end up with people who are further turned off to vegetarian/vegan lifestyles.

I think sometimes us vegetarians and vegans need to give up trying to convert people and just live by example. for example, there are all this speculation about how being veg/vegan is often unhealthy, that one's blood type affects those health levels, etc. based on scientific studies and it's more expensive, not available everywhere and blah blah, and I'm not saying that they're completely unfounded. however, I am a one in a million living examples of how untrue these statements can be. I get sick maybe once a year for a few days. I'm a type O blood, so I eat lots of spinach. I survive on delicious vegan goodness for probably half the cost of a meat and dairy diet.

why not eat meat? it's common sense. it could also be common sense to go to macdonalds everyday for some people. but it isn't up to me to judge. and I don't think I'm a better person because I'm vegan, altho maybe I'm a healthier one.

here's a link if'n you're interested: www.notmilk.org

CELEBRATE FOOD, LOVE AND LIFE

so you can just buy the seeds in any gardening store then ?

"I would like to appologize if I come off like an ass and slightly off-topic."

You did neither. Thanks for your post.

You said "your body requires healthful saturated fats from animals for brain and muscle development"

Who says? There are plenty of children that grew up as vegans who had healthy brain and muscle development. It may be more difficult to get one or two certain fatty acids from purely plant sources, but it is not a requirement.

You said "If you wan't to be a vegitarian for whatever reason I say "good luck" and get tested for nutritional deficiencies several times a year ". This statement makes me believe that you think its a losing proposition to be a vegie and that they are destined to have nutritional problems. Did you realize that India has 6 billion people and 83% of them are vegetarian? You'd think that deficiencies would be rampant throughout Asia if that were the case, would you not? Also, the vast majority of Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarians and many studies have been done on them stating that they are healthier than the average American.

You said, "ruminants are more efficient at converting plant matter into stored energy". That may be true of grasses, but not grains that most of our livestock is fed. You can feed something like 10 times more people on the grains fed to a cow in its lifetime than would be fed on the meat of that cow- that's NOT more efficient (and yes, I DO realize that you suggested we eat grass fed meats). And just because something is more efficient at converting something into protein, does not mean that we need to EAT it.

You also said, "If everyone on the planet depended on solely vegetable matter for suvival our topsoil would disapear at an even more frightening speed then it is today. By this I mean we would be nearly the last generation. " What is the source of your information? We are feeding livestock absolutely enormous amounts of grains. If everyone stopped eating meat products, we could use those same fields for grains, fruits and vegetables for people and have LOTS of land left over, plus we could plant the grazing land and have even more land left over. And plants like trees and shrubs that produce fruits and vegetables can develop root systems to prevent erosion and the loss of topsoil.

While I agree with many of your statements, telling people not to be vegetarians because it will harm their health and destroy the environment is blatently false.

The juice of an orange makes my mouth water and my stomach growl.

The blood of an animal does no such thing.

you can get vitamins like b12, which typically come from meat, from nutritional yeast. Yeah nutritional yeast! Soo gooood!

*peaches*

Jesse